Balancing the Vote-Kick Penalty: A Call for Change

Community General Discussion
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When the vote-to-kick system was introduced in World of Warcraft with patch 3.3, it aimed to improve the group experience by allowing players to remove disruptive members. Over the years, this system has seen many updates and changes. Initially, getting vote kicked didn’t punish players with a timer. However, players started receiving penalty timers for getting kicked because some would wait to be kicked from a dungeon they didn’t like to avoid the timer.

For many years, players who left a dungeon or got kicked did not receive a penalty if the first boss was slain. This rule was just recently changed because people were abusing it to farm the first boss in dungeons and raids. Now, regardless of which boss you are on or whether you leave or get kicked, you receive a penalty.

This setup is simply not fair, as those who are kicked against their will are punished the same as those who willingly choose to leave. This has always been an issue, of course, but it was easier to shrug it off in the past. The penalty has become much more harsh to those getting kicked, which has been very apparent recently. For some strange reason, it also seems that more people are initiating vote kicks.

Here are two potential solutions to address this issue logically:

Solution 1: Remove the Penalty for Those Who Get Kicked
Many players are wrongfully or unjustly kicked from dungeons and are punished. It doesn’t make sense to penalize everyone who is kicked! While some players might refuse to leave and intentionally get kicked to avoid a timer, the solution is to vote kick that player out. Why punish the majority for the actions of a few who choose to throw tantrums in dungeons they don’t like?

Solution 2: Implement an Escalating Penalty System
When a player first leaves or gets kicked, the timer could be 15 minutes. If they leave again, the timer could increase to 30 minutes, and so on. This ensures that those caught in the crossfire of kicks don’t receive harsh punishments, while those who deserve it will eventually be properly penalized if they get kicked frequently. This approach balances the need to use the vote-to-kick tool when necessary without unfairly punishing players who are wrongfully kicked.

Ultimately, the vote-to-kick tool is essential and should not be removed. It’s the penalty that needs analyzing. It’s important to note that not every vote kick is unjust—there are plenty who deserve to be kicked. However, many fall victim to troll kicks or unfair kicks. Unfortunately, there’s no way to track these types of kicks. Because this system can easily be abused, I find merit in addressing the issue, which will foster more participation in LFD

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Nope. We already had this before, and it was considerably worse because people would actively hinder group progress when it was beneficial to get kicked.

This could be worthwhile, but I’d still start it at 30 minutes. There should never be a situation where it is more advantageous to be kicked than to manually drop the group.

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I understand your concern about people potentially hindering group progress to get kicked without penalty. I don’t believe that removing the penalty for those who get kicked would necessarily lead to an increase in trolling behavior.

Here’s why:

Community Accountability: The WoW community generally values cooperative gameplay. Most players want to complete dungeons efficiently and enjoyably. Trolls are a minority, and the community can often self-regulate through social pressure and reporting systems.

Vote Kick System: The vote kick system itself is a tool for dealing with disruptive players. If someone is intentionally hindering progress, the group can still vote to kick them. The absence of a penalty for being kicked would not remove this functionality.

Fairness: The current system unfairly punishes players who are kicked for reasons beyond their control, such as group disagreements or misunderstandings. Removing the penalty for being kicked would address this issue and create a more equitable experience.

If the concern about trolling remains significant, then I would look closer at the escalating penalty system. As already mentioned, this ensures that habitual offenders face increasing penalties, while those who are unfairly kicked are not harshly punished. But I still think this solution is logical.

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Your first suggestion sounds reasonable, but the second one ^^^^ is a bad idea

Under no circumstances should there ever be a “stacking” debuff in content involving randoms/pugs, just too many possibilities for abuse:

  • people simply trolling or initiating a vote-to-kick for giggles
  • a group of guildies/friends mass-voting against a solo-casual pug player
  • a premade mass-voting against a solo-casual pug player
  • etc etc
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I appreciate your feedback and understand the concerns. I think what you said is valid, and there are ways to mitigate those risks:

  • Implementing a review system where players can report unjust kicks. This would help ensure that penalties are applied fairly/in cases where players are genuinely disruptive.

  • Increase the transparency in the vote kick process by allowing players to see who initiated the vote. This could discourage unjustified kicks/promote accountability. In addition to this, being able to see why they were kicked. This would help players understand the specific reason for their removal, which I believe could help them improve their behavior or gameplay in future dungeons.

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There’s already an escalating “kick timer” as people who kick more end up with longer cooldowns between being able to initiate a kick, so people who are more likely to spam vote kicks won’t be able to do so as often.

The system has existed for a long, long time. The number of people kicked for zero reason whatsoever are in the extreme minority, even fewer than those that are trolling or disruptive to their groups.

This topic has also been done to death, there’s no point of saying “If things get worse…” when players already saw things as worse with the leaver problem, things only changed to keep the deserter penalty to persist past the first boss because the problem of people queuing for content then leaving it unfinished then queueing again.

Also… appeal kicks? What are they going to do, try and force their way back into the group that kicked them? No. Transparency in vote kicks is simple, majority not including the kicked vote yes, that’s it, demanding to know who started it is pointless unless the person being kicked is taking it personal and then goes to harass or spam the person who kicked them, in which case the kick wouldn’t have been enough and then they get reported for an actual account action.

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You couldn’t even get most players to agree on what this means. :rofl:

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I rarely see a vote kick. Maybe 2 out of 1000 dungeons. Players don’t like to get kicked, so they come to forums and cry. It is very rare to be kicked without justification. My healer was kicked a couple of times in 20 years after a wipe, but i wouldn’t say it was completely unjustified.

The kick system works well. Players just need thicker skin and need to realize that others sometimes make mistakes and get frustrated.

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This is unrealistic, they don’t have the staff to analyze every kick and try to justify if there was anything “unjust”, and Blizzard does not have any desire to stick players into groups when they aren’t wanted by that group.

I highly doubt this is worthwhile.

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They still impact the player experience negatively. Even if rare, being unfairly penalized can be frustrating and discouraging for those affected.

Knowing why you were kicked can offer constructive feedback and help players improve their behavior or gameplay.

Continuous feedback and discussion are essential for improving the game.

I understand that vote kicks might be rare for some players, and it’s true that many kicks are justified. I never disagreed on that point. Even if unjust kicks are infrequent, they still negatively impact those who experience them. The 30-minute penalty can be particularly harsh for players who are kicked unfairly.

It’s important to consider that not everyone has the same experience. Some players might encounter more unjust kicks due to various factors, such as playing at different times or with different groups. The goal is to create a fair system that minimizes the negative impact on all players, regardless of how often they experience kicks.

Again, by addressing the issue of unjust kicks and considering solutions like I listed, we can create a more balanced and enjoyable experience for everyone. Even if the problem is rare, it’s worth finding ways to improve the system.

3 Likes
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Eliminate vote kicks and deserter. If you don’t want to be ina group with someone, just leave. If 4 don’t want to be in a group with them, all 4 leave.

:smiling_imp::smiling_imp::smiling_imp:

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now idk abt the climbin kicks bc going from 30 an hour would be way too brutal
and ppl just troll kick sometimes. just have the kicks stay at 15 then 30.

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Your point about the escalating penalties potentially being too harsh is very valid. Keeping the penalties at 15 and 30 minutes could be a more balanced approach and we would avoid overly punishing players.

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OP whining on the forums for 3 days straight about getting kicked instead of just accepting they did something wrong and moving on

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The deserter on both kick and leave is pointless. Why have it? Why force someone to stay? But I can suggest they increase incentive to help people tolerate each other better like loot bonus’s for not having kicks or leaves.

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It might seem like I’m dwelling on this issue, but my intention is to highlight a system that I believe could be improved for the benefit of all players.

It’s not just about my personal experience; it’s about ensuring fairness and reducing frustration for everyone who might be unjustly penalized.

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Sounds like OP got kicked and needs to cry some.

Probably deserved it lol.

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It’s been explained to you so many times.

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Some? It’s been 3 days :confused: at a certain point you just gotta be a big girl and get over it

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I think you need to grow up.

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