How so? Horde/Orcs committing mass killing and then feeling bad about it for 10 minutes is a pretty familiar staple.
its like their one defining feature
But you still got it. Nothing unique. They just spent 5 minutes giving us a black tint eye.
Well, from what I can tell you want the heads of Saurfang, Sylvanas, Gallywix, and Nathanos; which like it or not is a huge price to pay with our already underused; underdeveloped; and underpowered roster. The NEs should obviously get their lands back (which, fair enough … they should); but the Forsaken wont be allowed theirs (again, rendering them without leadership OR land; so they’re a dead PC race in more ways than one). Or if they ARE allowed their Land back, it should come completely at the expense of their entire racial fantasy in the form of Calia.
Like it or not, with the way Blizz writes WoW, representatives are FAR in a way more important for story involvement (and story relevance) for PC races than just about ANY other factor. A capital city seems like a big cost, but its loss will only spur future storytelling if there are strong reps there to react to it. However, rob a race of its representation in WoW … and you deny them those opportunities (just look at the poor Darkspear, who STILL don’t have a leader). There are few punishments in this game that are more severe than the denial of future story opportunities.
2 Likes
A few dead. Others imprisoned yes.
Lol we ain’t never getting anything back. Darkshore blasted and destroyed as it is is all we get.
says who?
Great so you steal another Alliance character.
We could have Tyrande burn Orgrimmar to the ground and for the next 3 expansions you are running from smoldering ruin to another smoldering ruin to spare your characters.
1 Like
And I am ABSOLUTELY fine with that. Take Orgrimmar, do it (though I do think that Sylvie might beat you to it). You can even take the heads of Sylvie and Wix (AND Nathanos if we don’t see any sign of that “come to jesus” letting him become the Champion of HIS PEOPLE I genuinely think he could be). Hell, if you want it … take Wix’s pleasure palace … its an eyesore.
There are stories to be told with those sort of losses; as long as we’re allowed the characters needed to actually tell them. A city can be rebuilt far easier than characters can be replaced; which is why killing them off (especially on the Horde, who has very few to spare) should not be taken lightly. Not to say it should NEVER happen, but it does have weight and consequences.
Yeah that is true, which is why people were mad at garrosh’s character. Because instead of doing the faction war without one side being branded evil they just created a scapegoat. Now they are doing it again with sylvanas and it’s extra bitter.
I mean if you ask for more story… that’s more story.
5 Likes
As long as my characters have some agency and get their vengeance dues I am satisfied.
You get to keep most of your blood elves, tauren and Thrall it seems. So you have a full cast to propel the next story forward.
I asked for agency. Not just story.
stop watching and crying and do something… Its like Terror of Darkshore.
Tyrande literally promises us we finally have a chance to kill nathanos and instead… well you know what happens.
1 Like
Actually, now that I think about it, which characters are you talking about Droité? Vol’jin’s back, as long as they don’t forget to continue his story, and they really should just name Rokhan leader. Thrall’s back. Saurfang has gotten new status, but he was never actually a faction leader. People might not like Baine, but he’s gotten content to give him context beyond Cairne much like Anduin and Varian.
And here you present two different ideas. Which is actually important? New stories, or old ones? Because people can start new Forsaken characters and quest through all the Forsaken content they want. They could even go back to Wrath of the Lich King content for even more.
I think these ones are really the only ones in any danger of being killed. If these are the ones, what are you really worried about?
1 Like
The B cast takes the stage!
I would have been super mad if they killed nathanos. I am still mad Malfurion lived and I am running out of horde heroes.
7 Likes
To be fair, I would rather the Forsaken be off the stage for a while.
Same question I asked Droité: Which Horde heroes are actually even missing?
Since they are portraying them as either totally random good guy zombies who just want to die or total psychopaths who want to kick puppies, I agree.
Garrosh, Cairne, Zuljin, Kael, Voljin sorta, Grom, Kilrog, Doomhammer, Bladefist, a lot of other minor characters kinda got written off too.
8 Likes
TBH … nothing (but what I expect to lose, and what Het seems to believe we should lose are not necessarily in line with one another). That being said, we lost Cairne (off screen in a book … ouch); and Baine has been hit repeatedly with a Plot Device bat since. We lost Vol’jin (and it remains to be seen exactly what becomes of him. Anyone else find it weird that the most interesting Horde storyline of this expansion is gated behind several raids and there is no sign of it advancing in 8.2); but it took 2 years for Blizz to finally get around to building up Rokhan.
But … you are right, I’m not that worried about it. I genuinely expect that neither Sylvanas or Wix will be in positions of power within the Horde by the end of BfA; but I would also be a fool to ignore that Nathanos has not been given the motivation yet to find an avenue to spare himself; and Saurfang has so many Grom, Doomhammer, and Brox parallels right now its nuts (even if him doing a self-sacrifice play spits in the face of his VERY expensive cinematics). But … I guess we’ll see (I just don’t see a method for giving Het the satisfaction she desires).
1 Like
Garrosh was an extra character, you could compare him to Bolvar, I suppose. Cairne was replaced with Baine. Zul’jin was replaced by Vol’jin, who is back. Kael’thas was replaced by Lor’themar (and got extra characters like Rommath and Liadrin out of it, too). Main universe Grom, Kilrogg, Doomhammer, and Bladefist were never WoW characters.
Doesn’t seem like you’re actually missing Horde heroes to me.
Full disclosure, I do not read Hetaera’s posts, so I have no idea they’ve said. Not the best way to jump into a conversation, of course, but I don’t like Hetaera’s mentality.
2 Likes
Hmm … well, I did get a bit more heated than is necessary.
Essentially, I think it started largely due to my assumption that its possible Nathanos is getting so much screen time (and plot armor) in BfA because Blizz might intend for him to fill that void in the Forsaken leadership left by Sylvie when she goes (because, honestly, he’s the only one functionally prepped to fill that vacuum). And this conflicted with her beliefs that it IS necessary for Nathanos to get punished for the Alliance to get agency and satisfaction.
I guess I’m not overly opposed to that in hind sight, but “punishment” has VERY limited meanings in the Warcraft universe (and most would deny access to characters). However, I DO see Nate as the only reasonable out for the Forsaken PC race in this situation (other than … Calia /shudder). As a result, I can get a tad defensive of him (and Saurfang, as the Orcs aren’t fairing that well either; with only an often Absentee Father in Thrall and a geriatric Eitrigg to their name).
I was not just counting spaces or something. I wanted to like garrosh, he had potential that they kinda threw away. Zul’jin was zul’jin you can’t just replace that. Baine is trash compared to cairne. I can go on and on, but I didn’t really want them to be replaced. So I don’t care who replaced who I lost interesting characters to dungeon boss status.
And not just limiting it to wow, but by all rights those characters should have been horde heroes. The alliance has the entire sons of lothar back. We got AU female thrall.
5 Likes
That is a discussion of quality over quantity. But the conversation Droité was bringing up was room for future stories, which only needs quantity, if even that, since they can just make up new characters whenever.
Example being Varian. Varian sucked. And then they rewrote him so people would actually care when he died. If he had died as Alliance Garrosh that they had him be back in Wrath, more people would have just been glad to get rid of him.
1 Like
Don’t worry I had always prepared myself for disappointment.
Afterall this is the Horde we are talking about in just a few patches they go from pure evil to good incarnate through the power of feeling sorry.
We have Jaina smiling at warcriminal Saurfang at the end of crossroads. Lol World of Hordecraft will never die.
See you in the next expansion when tyrande greets you as her champion and saving everybody from those 8 mobs that need killing rofl.
2 Likes
Meh, no worse than being ordered around by Vareesa “Purge the Horde” Windrunner for quite a bit of Argus. Seriously, it feels weird to me that so many people seem to forget that she was just as involved in the Purge of Dalaran as Jaina (for arguably weaker motives). Hey Sunreavers, where was your outrage then huh?! Just gonna forget her Silver Covenant slaughtering your escape routes?
I truly do wish I could give the NEs and Alliance the satisfaction they truly deserve in this mess of an expansion; so I spend much of my time trying desperately to focus on those things that COULD be salvaged from the wreckage the Horde is looking forward to (if not by the hands of the Alliance, certainly Sylvanas). Nate … tends to be one of those potential things (Saurfang is another … if nothing else because I think him getting an honorable death runs counter to his arc in BfA).
6 Likes
I was only talking about the fact that most of the Horde heroes I really liked are dead. I wasn’t really going into it about future story capability. Primarily because I don’t really care about half of the horde’s current heroes. They are mostly brand new and have done nothing of note or are meme characters.
Weirdly, Talaanji, Geya’rah, and Mayla are all three flavors of the very same character archetype. They’re all young, idealistic women who were forced into positions of leadership before their time through the “death” of a Father Figure. Its SUPER weird that Blizz sort of missed this issue? Talaanji is the most developed, but these girls need a WHOLE lot of work to be good characters.
5 Likes
Huh I missed that somehow… is… That can’t be on accident right? Like that’s the theme or something?
1 Like