Liking Sylvanas as a character is one thing (I actually adore her), but any “earning” she may have had during WC3 was squandered when she decided to discard her Mongrel Race of Rotten Corpses after Arthas fell. Her committing suicide and trashing her “Arrows in her Quiver” sort of painted her relationship with them in a very unfortunate light (even if they have become her Bulwark).
On the other hand, I don’t understand? Are you saying you want Sylvie to remain their leader? But you also want Sylvie and Nathanos to be punished for the WoT? So doesn’t that mean you want the Forsaken to be rendered leaderless (and with-out leaders no way they’re taking back their lands in EK; if they even had a chance at doing so even with them). That’s … yeah, the Forsaken would just be done as a PC race (they’re gone, there is no fixing that sort of damage).
I have to agree. To my knowledge she has never even been aligned with the Forsaken. When Sylvanas leaves or is killed, I’m not sure who would be looking to Voss to lead them. If it did happen it would probably be Warchief Vol’jin style, someone with some authority in the room at the time points to her and she just rolls with it.
then maybe Blizzard should not have taken their story to that direction.
The story demands that either the Horde leaders pay for what they did OR they win and the Alliance faction is conquered and their leaders either dead or imprisoned.
I really could not care who is rendered faction leaderless.
A story with no consequence is no story at all. At best it is fanfiction.
Also … here’s a thought … the NEs simply do not get their lands back (and neither do the Forsaken). How’s that for consequences? The two races that were always going to lose the most in in ANY Faction Conflict focused expansion were the Kaldorei and Forsaken (many factors contribute to this, but primarily the fact that they were the core center of their faction’s power on the other Faction’s main continent). So … they lose the most.
People seem to act like the NEs HAVE to get their vengeance, but … no … they really, really don’t. People WANT them to get their revenge (I want them to), but like I said, perhaps the most apt proverb one can go by with this is “Revenge is a luxury not everyone can afford” … and it is entirely possible that by the time this War hits its conclusion the Alliance/Kaldorei will not be in a position of authority enough to “afford” or enforce that vengeance.
Revenge at the expense of destroying a PC race and its playerbase down to its very foundations to where it could NEVER recover is NOT a “revenge” I am willing to allow the NEs or their playerbase.
Lol thats the event that demands the consequence. Not the consequence itself.
Not just NEs. The entire Alliance as a faction deserves their vengeance. This is not the first time the Horde has done this. WoW is littered by places and people the Horde has destroyed. Those actions demand a consequence.
You seem to think somehow because you play Horde you are immune to any sort of retaliation because that somehow ends your faction and its playerbase meanwhile we are still here with the Alliance and its playerbase still going strong (40% but still) despite whatever Blizzard throws our way.
NO … I believe that the Alliance playerbase doesn’t get to destroy MY FACTION and punish Horde players for what the writers forced our faction to do! You don’t GET to have the ability to fundamentally destroy and entire race PC down to its very foundations; I don’t care how many thousands of faceless civilians died in some stupid capital city largely abandoned by even NE RPers.
The NE playerbase does NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to absolutely shatter the Racial Fantasy of an entire PC Race to the point of no recovery. I’m sorry, that is just not the case (and some of the Alliance seems to believe it should be the ENTIRE HORDE FACTION that is rendered completely destitute and broken beyond repair for Blizz’s mistakes) and that somehow just letting us Horde players “exist” (with no hope of EVER being allowed relevance in ANY future stories) is “reward” enough.
So Horde gets to destroy multiple places and people according to the story but the Alliance player cannot experience any sort of payback storyline because the Horde player cannot handle the same amount of punishment.
So instead they scream and pout that any sort of retaliation will literally end their game on a both story and meta level.
You’re not just talking about punishing the Horde FACTION on a story level; you know damned well what you are suggesting is punishing the Horde PLAYERBASE on a Meta level.
You are talking about rendering the Forsaken PC race without land or leaders (or anyone or anything built to replace them). Its not unreasonable in the slightest to expect some level of courtesy towards an entire faction of players that did not have any say in getting villain batted again; beyond “Welp, sorry guys, guess you picked the wrong Faction fifteen years ago. You should have liked the Alliance races if you wanted to be both relevant and a hero. Better get used to paying 15 dollars a month for their stories from now on”.
As much as you like to kick and scream yes I am.
This will not impact your pvp, your LFG or LFR, your auction house and whatever else.
Both Night Elves and Forsaken are now landless. Did they cease to exist?
The Orcs and Trolls haven’t had a faction leader for a while now. Did they cease to exist? Hell the Dwarves haven’t had a leader figure since cataclysm and one of their kings is supposedly my lacky in BFA.
Stop being so melodramatic. If the Alliance has to put up with the punishment since Cataclysm then so can you. And this punishment is a long time coming.
No, it will just effect me ever being allowed to have relevance in the story from now on; and believe it or not, this is the story forums where those who are invested in said story come to discuss (and they aren’t just Alliance). It IS a massive impact … because we did get to know how it feels to deal with that issue before (in Legion, where the Horde barely existed). It truly sucks…
As for the NEs … they still have one of the single most well developed and large rosters of A and B list characters out of any PC race in this game. Even if they are forced to migrate to EK and resettle, they will be absolutely fine on a storytelling level because that rosters allows opportunities for future stories and relevance. That is not the case for the Forsaken if you rob them of BOTH their representation and land. They will not have a means of recovery (without years of hard work and assets on the part of Blizzard; and that’s even a “maybe”).
Stop being so hyperbolic. The Alliance may have lost a couple of cities, but honestly … so what? Their character roster is absurdly strong; their relevance in stories is incredible (even with their hands being tied behind their backs); and their Racial Fantasies and Faction Fantasy are largely intact (even if hit with the Lawful Stupid bat from time to time). Hell, the Alliance Power-Fantasy is in an entirely different Genre than the Horde’s right now (which is why its so frustrating that AGAIN Blizz made us the antagonists in a Faction Conflict we could never hope to win).
Blizzard can pick and choose what the Horde loses to even scales but the Horde must lose. If they want to go down this “Good Horde rebels again”.
There has to be a consequence for the Horde actions because otherwise the story is completely messed up in the Horde’s favor. Everything to their advantage, they can do anything and get away with anything because their fanbase stops any sort of meaningful story telling.
Undead being made irrelevant in the story is good for the overall story. I couldn’t care less about them having no more characters after Nathanos and Sylvanas. They’ve had their limelight in BFA and it was bad and boring. It isn’t interesting or compelling story.
Yes, you keep repeating that … and I agree; but there also does have to be some reasonable limits to it (because they really can NOT get away with punishing the Horde playerbase too much for something the writers forced upon them). If NOT shattering a Faction down to its foundations; and hamstringing several core PC races is considered an insult to some Alliance players … well, too bad. Sorry you had completely unrealistic expectations in a game with two playable sides.
The Horde will be punished (my guess, by Sylvanas herself). If Blizzard is really going to try to foist the lions share of the blame onto her, then they are likely going to have to try to make the Horde feel a fragment of what they put the Kaldorei through (and become victims of Sylvie’s machinations as well). Its the reason I truly do believe that Blizz reinforced how she “has the loyalty of the people”; because she IS going to be the Laughing Shepherd leading her Blind-Sheep off a cliff (from Ogmot’s Journal). Sylvie’s deathtoll is going to hit the Horde HARD.
Outside of that … I get the feeling the Alliance is due for their own sort of problems that will keep them busy. Verimathras pretty much stated they are due for a MASSIVE betrayal “that will leave their thrones running red with blood” … so what form that takes might be made apparent by the end of this expansion.
Its certainly not out of their wheelhouse these days thats for sure. Personally, my “guess” is its still going to be Shaw (its super weird he’s just plain everywhere in this expansion … Like, Nathanos I kind of get if they are really building him up to replace Sylvie … but why is Shaw more relevant and just “there” than 90 percent of the other Alliance characters in BfA)?
When the representation of Horde guards and representatives in Zandalar, the main lands of the expansion Horde goes to are Nathanos and undead “death guards” I’d consider BFA to be their limelight. They are the de-facto leaders of the Horde right now for whatever ridiculous reason. If the Undead player base is unhappy with that limelight… oh well. They shouldn’t be catered to and given a “fix” for their story or given more limelight. The nature of the Undead being the edgy, malicious and bitter race does no good for the story. Any story written for them due to the “Forsakens” stated goals means other races of Azeroth have to suffer. Blizzard needs to reduce them a backdrop race, out of sight, out of mind and just progress the story away from that nonsense.