I really hate this about WoW storytelling.
Because some guy switches sides at some moment suddenly all is forgiven.
Kind of reminds me of this video I saw a while ago.
7 Likes
Of course that it matters, of course that it have impact, weren’t you the one asking why jaina wanted peace again? maybe, just maybe you could have a better understanding of the character if you read the books that you like to ignore, it helps you to understand why characters acts the way they do.
even so, it is still vital, as lore fans this is what we need to understand the world. do i need you to remind you that this is the STORY forum?
yes it does matter, because it shows that a culture can have different aspects in their society not necessarily represented by their leaders.
examples:anduin,jaina,lord’themar.
ingame has also show that the forsakens are proud to not become just weapons like arthas did to them, is one of their core aspects.
to not become like the scourge.
Do you know who is zelling? alonsus faol? lilian voss?
2 Likes
Not exactly sure what exactly Nathanos has done to really differentiate him from a lot of the other Horde characters in BfA? Hell, I don’t even remember people really calling for his head until he had the gall to not get insta-killed by SS Tyrande in Darkshore (which was more a side-effect of Blizz’s poor planning when it comes to power-scaling in WoW than anything else).
I mean … yeah, he’s resurrecting NEs … but that is sort of what Forsaken do; they resurrect the dead to bolster their numbers. So, while I can understand the hate for him getting “forgiven” if he turns against Syvlie; I can’t imagine how its any worse than a majority of instances like this in Blizz’s writing. Hell, he’s essentially been along for the ride this expansion (despite his sass suggesting otherwise); I’m … uncertain why exactly that would make him less redeemable than say Maiev (who, by all indications, has been totally absolved of all the horrific crap she’s pulled)?
2 Likes
He is incredibly pro sylvanas, even Lorthemar sees anything that annoys brightcaller as something of a positive.
I see Brightcaller, Gallywix and Sylvanas as the main axis of evil in the Horde and if there is going to be any peaceful resolution at the very least those three have to be removed from the equation.
Because if they stick around when Horde becomes “good” again then why not keep Sylvanas too?
2 Likes
Yeah … but Lor’themar and Nathanos’ prickliness actually predates the Plague of Undeath; back when Sylvanas made Nathanos the first (and only) Human Ranger of Quel’thalas. They were not fond of eachother then, so Lor’themar doing things to get under Nate’s skin is not out of character for him. Its essentially the sassy man vs the grump one (which is fun).
Also, I’m still uncertain what power you think Nathanos has? He’s not a Horde Racial leader; and he’s essentially the pet of Sylvanas right now (so he’s an instrument of her will … I can’t recall the last time he truly exercised his own). So, I’d hardly quantify him on even footing to Sylvanas (who, I’m pretty sure orchestrated the war to satisfy some “True Objectives”) and Gallywix (who, just seems to be OK letting the world burn if he can have fun doing it atm).
4 Likes
You know in war usually its not just the leaders that get prosecuted, some generals and civilians who profited off the war also get the book thrown at them.
Thats why I am putting Nathanos and Gallywix in the same camp as Sylvanas. She can’t do everything alone so these characters have to either follow her when she leaves the Horde or die.
In-game they seem to be her staunchest supporters.
I know you are reluctant in losing more characters on the red side but it is the only thing that makes sense.
2 Likes
My issue isn’t “losing” characters, so much as hamstringing entire PC races without representation. Like … the disaster that was the Darkspear after Vol’jin was killed off SUPER damaged their racial fantasy (and made them insanely irrelevant). They still do not have an official leader right now, with “maybe” Blizz finally lining up Rokhan to take that mantel.
Voss is the only other contender who could take charge other than Nathanos, and she’s … just not ready in any way. She’s moving in the right direction. Don’t even get me started on the Calia issue, who would be like making Turaylon the next leader of the Kaldorei. While on the Wix end it really is Gazlowe who seems to be getting built up as a replacement (and he has YEARS of history with the Horde to justify that transition). Nathanos also has a fleshed out backstory, Voss … doesn’t.
Long story short … I don’t want to see the Forsaken Race destroyed by Blizzards short sighted writing. In this game, with the way the writing is, if you find yourself without representation (let alone strong representation) your race might as well not even exist. Your people are as good as dead as if they had been wiped out as far as the stories and game are concerned.
5 Likes
I agree its choose your poison scenario but I would give anything to NOT once again have everybody sing kumbaya because ONE guy got replaced.
If Blizzard wants to go down the road of “Horde needs to learn a lesson” then they need to clean house otherwise we are back to MoP finale again.
3 Likes
On the other hand, if they “clean house” they’ve effectively destroyed the faction; without destroying it. As fun as Legion was, it was hard not to recognize that I (and all Horde players) were just side-kicks in our own stories. A strange footnote along-side the REAL Heroes (the Alliance), with their leaders just trying to ignore the fact that I’m a little green person (rather than … a “Pink-Skin”).
I cannot imagine trying to tolerate more expansions like that… My faction gets ignored in the story for two years, then hit with the villain bat again … woo…
11 Likes
Thats why initially I said just let the Horde be the savage primitive faction.
One of the things I don’t like about WoW books is that the races are juuuuuust so damn boring.
Its like reading about humans with a different coat of paint.
There is barely any really cultural differences besides the system of government and the aesthetic. Maybe the factions need to look like something like ESO where you can join them as mercenaries when they get into conflict with each other but other than that you have no allegiance. Horde can keep their characters if they suffer some other way besides everyone becomes friends again due to X reason.
2 Likes
The issue with the savage primitive faction is that it does not scale with the writing of this game. Like it or not, the addition of the BEs (beyond population issues) and Forsaken were almost a necessity to ensure that the Horde as a faction had some method of being relevant.
Elven and Human mythos is deep and vast; and Blizz has not put nearly that level of effort into the Horde races (especially the original three and Goblins). The Horde (without those two peoples) also had next to nothing in terms of relevance or representation with HEAVY story themes/domains like: Death; Light; Void; and Arcane (rendering them lacking in importance in most storylines since Vanilla). That doesn’t even get into the fact that prior to the introduction of the Forsaken and BEs … Blizz did very little work to actually differentiate the cultures of the original Honor Horde members (they were all sort of this ugly, undefined, shamanistic mass).
Honestly, I’m not fond of the “Going back to being Friends” thing either; but I do think the alternative would likely see more blowback (getting us out of eachothers ways). While I’m still MOSTLY against it, it is hard to justify how exactly he Forsaken would take their lands back (especially if, like you suggest, they have their leadership gutted). So … the “Mostly” Faction Specific continents seem like a possibility; a remote one … but still a possibility (sry).
3 Likes
The best of the Horde involves lopping off parts of our anatomy and having them smuggled into Anduin’s bedroom.
Fantastic.
Rokhan is pretty cool. Maybe he marries Talanji. Then Voljin becomes the Loa of Warchiefs. And the Trolls rule the Horde!
![:man_shrugging:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/man_shrugging.png?v=6" ":man_shrugging:")
8 Likes
Like Mufasa from lion king lol?
1 Like
Talanji, as she’s the only person so far who has told Sylvanas to her face that she won’t allow the cult of vaguely defined honor and edginess that is the Horde erase her people’s culture, while still willing to be allies.
The Horde is at its best when the various members of it get to be themselves. Not when it’s a wall of red and spikes and blight and stupid loyalty.
8 Likes
Are you insulting the great orcish architecture style?
Get him boys.
1 Like
Usha Eyegouge would be a war chief i could get behind tbh. Not that it will ever happen though
2 Likes
Lol at Nathanos representing the Forsaken better than the character that literally founded their society and forms the foundation of their entire culture.
Very big lol at the idea that simply being from Lordaeron is one of the reasons when Lordaeron is essentially just a coat of paint for the identity of the Forsaken.
5 Likes
I think Voss would be quite fitting as the leader of the Forsaken, she seems to be a starch contrast to Sylvanas who no longer represents what it meant to be Forsaken.
As far as Baine representing all that: He never did represent what is best about the Horde in my opinion. For the writer’s to put such a fictitious claim in Lor’themar’s mouth, they must have a very different opinion than mine. What exactly do they define as “best about the Horde?” Weakness? Cowardice? Duplicity? At best Baine is an advocate of peace but his pluses end there and even that trait suffers exceptions.
1 Like
The primary issue with Voss is that despite sort of being the un-living embodiment of Forsaken Free Will; she has only very recently gotten involved in their affairs (and she sort of heavily implies that she was conscripted into this War by force). I have no doubt that she cares for those Undead she’s created (Stone and Zelling), but I’m not sure she’s earned the right to be THE Forsaken leader yet.
3 Likes
I think she has earned it.
1 Like