I’m sorry, where’s the backtracking in any of my posts?
Here’s to hoping for a public execution where they lop off his traitorous head.
I said Baine should have his head removed for committing the very definition of treason on at least 3 occasions.
I call for Baine’s head because he is a traitor. He actively works against the Horde war effort, as well as against the Warchief. Traitors deserve to die, especially ones that have done it multiple times.
Baine is actively working against the Horde war effort. The Horde is losing the war and Baine decides to sabotage a military asset (potential Derek trojan horse) that could take out Jaina or any of the higher ups in the Alliance military, tipping the scales back in the Horde’s favor. And not only does he sabotage that, he kills horde soldiers, gift wraps Derek in a horde warship and sends him off as a present to his friends in the Alliance.
Please enlighten me on my so-called backtracking. Those all seem pretty consistent to me with their message. Elaborating on what his treasonous acts are is just for the people, like yourself apparently, that aren’t aware of what he actually did. Namely that he killed Horde soldiers (the ship’s crew), sabotaged a Horde war asset (Derek) and sent that war asset back to the Alliance as a gift, along with a Horde warship.
I look forward to your next post being something to the effect of “lol blood elf, you’re basically alliance. lol way to support the lich queen. lol you want the horde to be the scourge 2.0”, and not actually addressing my points.
nope he actually only killed forsaken soldiers and got rid of a forsaken war asset because we basically know at this point sylvanas is lying to the horde and has her own agenda
Of course you aren’t your avatar. It’s still funny that you Blood Elf players all act like total Horde loyalists while playing the most Alliance looking race available on Horde. Also your leader Lor’themar was a traitor to Garrosh and helped the Alliance bring him down in the Siege of Orgrimmar. You Blood Elves are always mute about that but then expect total loyalty to an Elf warchief and her human lover while hating on actual Horde heroes. You’re phony Horde who just want to turn the Horde into the Alliance but colored red and more edgy.
Spuddy already addressed your “points”. Baine didn’t kill Horde soldiers. He killed Forsaken soldiers working for a warchief gone rogue. You identify loyalty to a warchief gone rogue and her human lover with being loyal to the Horde while betraying Horde heroes who have done more for the Horde than these “Forsaken” scum ever have. To you being “Horde” only means hating the Alliance and just pillaging and killing everything in sight. While of course wanting to look like the Alliance but wave a Horde banner while you hate them, lol.
What exactly makes a Forsaken soldier any different? A rank-and-file Forsaken would know just as much about Sylvanas’ ulterior motives as any other soldier, it could’ve just as easily been any Horde race acting under her perfectly reasonable orders of “Keep the enemy from retrieving this valuable asset”.
perhaps, perhaps not. either way that’s who they were serving. i didn’t see any taurens or orcs or trolls or even blood elves really on that ship. we also didn’t kill all the forsaken. a lot of them said “please, i was just following orders” and then they ran away, we didn’t kill them.
I wish I could post pictures on here. I’d post a picture of Saurfang decked out in his Horde colors and armor and then post a picture of Nathanos in his generic black coat with no Horde symbols at all. Proceeding to laugh at these people who say being loyal to Nathanos is more “Horde” than siding with Saurfang.
What reason do we have to believe that she’s not lying to the Forsaken as well? We saw her shoot down Forsaken that only momentarily considered returning to their families in BtS, why on earth would she share her ulterior motives with people she so clearly distrusts when, as far as we know, not even Nathanos really knows what she’s up to?
Maybe they did maybe they didn’t. It doesn’t really change the fact that Baine was not going against the Hordes interests but only Sylvanas personal interests. And come to think of it he was even acting in the interests of the Forsaken, because Sylvanas was attempting to deny a newly risen forsaken their right to free will. The soldiers following her orders on that boat and attempting to fight Baine were the traitors. Those who surrendered were allowed to escape unharmed.
Again, Spud and Trivel are not actually intelligent at all, they have no points and they are absolutely hypocritical: DEERP! NATHANOS LOOKS HUMAN! HE IS ALLIANCE! Which is absolutely stupid seeing how Baine and Saurfang are actually licking the boots of a human currently. But I guess idiots lack any sense of self-awareness.
Carried on. Don’t expect Orgrimmar to be transformed into castles but only with red roofs instead of blue ones. I know how much you want an Alliance aesthetic but only painted with Horde logos and colors instead. Sylvanas time as “warchief” is coming to an end.
I didn’t say he was Alliance. I said he looks entirely human and non-Horde like. He’s out of place on the Horde. It looks bad and I have no idea what they are doing to Horde other than appealing to these people who want to play Horde but look more like the Alliance. He’s literally just a second rate fake looking Genn Greymane. The only bootlicker I see is you demanding total loyalty to a High Elf warchief who has gone rogue and proclaiming this as somehow being the true Horde thing to do.
Baine could be cool if he were ever allowed to “go beastmode” … but he never is.
Honestly, the guy isn’t that bad of a character. Conceptually he’s meant to be more of a “coming-of-age” style leader (like Anduin, Talaanji, Geya’rah, and Mayla) who is still developing (rather than fully actualized). This, in of itself … is not bad. What IS bad however is that Baine is also (almost exclusively) used as a token “Good Horde” Plot Device, meant to serve as a counterbalancing force for whenever Blizz wants some other Horde character to go super off the deep end.
As a result, Baine’s needs (and development) as a character always comes second to his needs as a counterbalancing force for the grander Horde narrative; and in instances (like Legion) where he didn’t need to fill that annoying role … his content is cut (Highmountain).
Personally, what I want from him in BfA is for him to take a MASSIVE loss. I appreciate what he tried to do with Derek; his reasoning (he’s essentially sick of ignoring the big sword in his Goddess); and even him having the spine to go back for punishment. But … it really does seem like he walked into Sylvie’s trap, and it should bite him hard. If nothing else, I want Baine to get “hardened” by his soon-to-be (probably) massive mistake with Derek; and for him to (finally) gain some sort of growth from it.
Unfortunately I just don’t see that happening with the current writing crew. He’ll kneel to Anduin and get a head pat and the writers will continue to be completely confused as to why the Horde players aren’t cheering him as the new Thrall.
Which really does suck. His basic character architecture is fairly good when looked at objectively. He’s a literal product of the “New Horde” of Warcraft 3; idolizing characters like Thrall, Vol’jin, Saurfang, Cairne, Rexxar. He’s also a member of the Horde Race responsible for getting the Forsaken added into their ranks (and while that was Magatha who did that, Baine does seem to agree with the idea that the Forsaken do deserve a chance as a people).
The idea that he’s peace oriented isn’t even that bad. Cairne DIED attempting to preserve a chance for peace with the Alliance. Hamuul is equally peace oriented. Hell, it was even Golden herself who introduced the darker side of Baine (that he keeps withheld) where his AU version allowed his anger over Cairne’s death to get the better of him; and he challenged Garrosh to a Mak’Gora and didn’t just win, he ripped that orc in half with his bare hands.
It just sucks. Conceptually this character would have potential if Blizz would ever allow him a chance to actually grow as a Leader (which, as a “coming of age” style archetype, is what he’s supposed to be doing). I would especially love a moment for him to cut the crap and just let the anger he’s so terrified of loose (in a way that is without question in favor of the Horde). But … you may be right. “Potential” is worthless if its never acted upon; and his role as a plot-device is clearly more important.
Lol. You totally are one of those BG ranters. You didn’t even deny it.
There’s a lot to unpack there in your criticism of me, though, because it doesn’t make a lot of sense. On the one hand, you seem to accuse me of secretly wanting to play Alliance because I play a Blood Elf. I do play Alliance. I’ve even played Alliance on this toon, because I like to play both sides of the content and sometimes faction change my main to do so. I haven’t done that in a while though, and I have played mostly Horde since Vanilla, when I did play mostly Alliance. I’ve certainly never tried to hide the fact that I play toons on both sides. I mean, I’m interested in the story. I think it’s kind of weird to be interested in the story and not play both sides to some degree.
But then you seem to accuse me of being a Horde zealot who is a fervent supporter of Nathanos and Sylvanas. Which, if you read my post history, you would know not to be true. I don’t like the Saurfang/Baine story arc…and I don’t like the Sylvanas one either. Gasp! It turns out that there can be more than two options in life!
And then you finish by claiming that I want the Horde to be a red version of the Alliance…which seems like totally the opposite of me being a rabid Sylvanas supporter, which you accused me of in the previous sentence.
I don’t think these are super rational criticisms.
I’m not a blood elf player. I’m a player that posts as a blood elf. I have played this game as a horde main though, ever since the beta was released. I have played trolls, tauren, humans, and night elves through various expansions.
Beyond that you say “Of course you aren’t your avatar”, but then you say “You Blood Elves are always”. So do you really know I’m not my avatar? You can’t seem to separate the two. You know you aren’t really an orc, right?
What is about Baine fans that prevent them from realizing that if Baine is a hero, it’s to the Alliance, not the Horde. Baine is at best a disappointment.
A stupid argument if ever I saw one, the Horde always was about coming together against adversity and for many, this adversity came in the form of the Alliance. Blood Elves, Forsaken, Goblins, Trolls (both kinds) joined the Horde because the Alliance constantly whizzed into their cereal. Nathanos may look human, but he isn’t one. He is undead, a race hated by the Alliance, a race outright murdered without any second thoughts by the Alliance. So they sought to join someone who WOULDN’T immediately try to genocide them, enter the Horde (pre-Garrosh). Sylvanas fights a war that has been several decades in the making, that both sides have been responsible for, even though I shall remain steadfast that this current war was provoked by the Alliance.
You know what I proclaimed the TRUE HORDE thing to do? You wanna know how I would have supported Saurfang? If he had challenged Sylvanas to Mak’gora, if he had cut her down as he said he would. Fighting a honor duel against your Warchief to dethrone him or her is not dishonor in the orcish view. THAT is encouraged. And again, do not give me the ‘SHE WOULD CHEAT!’-excuse. It doesn’t matter. If she would cheat, Saurfang would become a martyr, a person that orcs could rally behind. At that point a rebellion would have been justified, but now? No, it isn’t. Most of her ‘bad deeds’ have been against the Alliance, which I do not care for, they deserve to die. And the ‘bad deeds’ against the Horde you cite (Soldiers dieing in Lordaeron for overextending beyond lines that they were ordered to cross) were done so for a advantage for the Horde. I do not lick Sylvanas’ boots. I like her, but I see why others don’t. My complaints start when these ‘honorable soldiers of the Horde’, start siding with the Alliance and murdering Horde soldiers for no other benefit then having the Alliance win this war.
Being a Sylvanas supporter is not the opposite of wanting a red version of the Alliance. If you support Sylvanas then that is you wanting a red version of the Alliance. It’s supporting a High Elf warchief gone rogue and her human lover instead of traditional Horde heroes.
No wonder you play a Blood Elf. You were a former Alliance player. All these Blood Elves were former Alliance who made the switch and now act like they are Horde loyalists who hate “traitors” and those “traitors” to them happen to be some of the biggest Horde heroes in lore like Saurfang. You want to look the most like an Alliance race but play on the trendy faction without actually playing a real Horde race.
Nice fake likes by the way.
Of course a Blood Elf main would believe that a High Elf phony warchief is serving the interests of the Horde while Baine an actual Horde hero is “helping the Alliance”. You play a Blood Elf. Your entire race was part of the Alliance and had no part in the foundation of the Horde. The only reason Blood Elves are on the Horde is because Blizzard pulled it out of thin air because they panicked about the population of Horde and it worked. Former Alliance play Blood Elves.
Nathanos is “undead” all right while looking entirely human and not undead at all. It isn’t Horde being led by a High Elf warchief and her totally “undead” lover. It’s some revisionist Horde to make them look more similar to the Alliance. Alliance isn’t the only ones to hate undead. Members of the Horde also distrust and dislike undead.
Baine didn’t kill Horde soldiers. He killed Forsaken soldiers. Of course you’d want Saurfang to suicide fight Sylvanas just so he can be killed. I don’t know why you act like you dislike the Alliance so much considering you want to look like them as you rally behind a High Elf phony warchief and want to strip away all that is Orcish from the Horde. Next you’ll be begging for Lady Liadrin to be warchief after Sylvanas instead of actual Horde like Thrall, Saurfang, Baine or Rokhan. You’ll want Orgrimmar to have Nightborne buildings from Suramar all over it and castles but with red roofs instead of blue ones with Blood Elf architecture everywhere.
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