She sees her people as her possessions, she doesnt care for their well being but how they can be of use to her.
Her dome was to protect HER kingdom, she is selfish to the limit.
Even I am honest enough to know that she almost destroyed azeroth over a booty call.
I’m just saying it’s not out of character for her to go “wow, all these outer powers suck. Im literally superior to them, now let me prove it”.
And she totally could by the way.
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Yes, selfish, you and I aren’t disagreeing, but you’re missing the point. If Illidan, Man’ari and even Kael’thas in Revendreth can be given a chance at redemption. Why not Azshara? If Sylvanas who doomed billions of souls into the Maw across all the universe since Legion thru Shadowlands, and at the end stands condemned with a glimmer of redemption why deny Blizzard has done this before to far worse people? Redemption isn’t beyond anyone even the most selfish of elves.
Because she works best as an enemy, I think solving every villain with talk no jutsu can be very boring.
Even as an ally, I like the idea more of an ally of convenience instead of full redemption.
And for Azshara to be redeemed, she would have to admit to being wrong… that ain’t happening.
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I think it’d detract from her character to make her strive for a redemption arc, personally. As would changing her and the rest of the naga back to elves detract from the setting. Let them stay haughty sea serpents.
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I personally think the best solution is to just simply not redeem her, Just slightly change the direction of her goals and how she goes about obtaining them.
A sociopathic leader who realizes that they need to maintain their legitimacy by appealing to their subjects is literally how government works.
Agreed.
I’m even for playable nagas, but not under Azshara.
Azshara just works well as the taunting smug villain full of arrogance.
The setting needs more charismatic, smug, powerful, intelligent leaders who dont suckle the players/Anduins toes.
Excuse me for simply dying for a story where a leader actually has to work to maintain their legitimacy in the eyes of their descendants.
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Same here. Azshara can be an ally but only in the moment. Like she was in Ny’alotha. But she has her own goals and eventually those goals will be in conflict with our own.
I mean look at Savathun in Destiny 2. She is still an antagonist even though we had a common enemy, The Witness. That was the whole point of the Witch Queen expansion and its tie in season, Season of the Risen. “The enemy of your enemy is not always your friend”. Even in ‘The Final Shape’, Savathun acts as the secondary antagonist. Having her Lucent brood cause trouble in the Pale Heart for whatever scheme she is cooking. Although she claims it is to make us strong. A sword needs sharping after all. Even when she is a “supplicant” of the Traveler, she still holds truth to the sword logic in some shape or form. Habits always die hard I guess.
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I certainly hope so. That evil sexy sea food platter was one of BFA’s highlights.
I just hope they remember not to kill her. She’s a demi god sea witch God Queen of a submarine snake empire. That’s extremely powerful but not enough to be an Apocalypse tier threat on her own. Keep her in the Rogue’s Gallery and let her pop up whenever we need some delicious enemy variety.
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There’s that in-game flyer that advertises Azshara’s comeback tour. If she is working with Xal’atath, she will almost certainly attempt to usurp Knaifu’s plan. I’m wondering if we’re really going to lose both haughty, elven, villainess waifus back to back in Midnight?
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Smells like alliance bias in the mourning.
Azshara wanted the Burning Legion to genocide THE REST OF THE WORLD as long as she and the Highborne were spared to save “only the worthy” and she got to shack up with Sargeras. She’s evil. If there was a time when Azshara wasn’t evil, it’s long gone.
She’s evil, though that doesn’t mean she’s without non-evil traits.
I do want to see her again, and while she does not have a rightful claim to rulership of all elfkind, she definitely sees herself that way.
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So, we’re just going to ignore the facts that the Kaldorei Empire experienced a golden age under Azshara?
We’re really going to judge a millennia-long ruler for what happened in like the last year of her reign?
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I’m not sure how long Azshara reigned. N’Zoth said he’d watched her for a thousand years, but was she in power that whole time? I did say there might’ve been a time when Azshara wasn’t evil, which would explain that golden age.
When that last year of her reign included her trying to genocide most of the planet in exchange for her “master race” worldview and trying to become Sargeras’ sugar baby, I think that’s valid grounds to judge her.
Azshara reigned for at least 2,000 years, as Eldre’Thalas, built 12,000 years ago, served as an arcane repository for the Queen’s prized possessions.
The Night Elves established their civilization 15,000 years ago, the Kaldorei Empire lasted for 5,000 years and Azshara ruled for 2,000 years, literally almost half of the Kaldorei Empire’s existence had Azshara as Queen.
Azshara was so beloved, beautiful, and popular, that the Night Elves renamed their capital “Zin-Azshari”, the “Glory of Azshara”. The common folk loved her so much that they did not consider her a member of the hated Highborne caste, but just as “Azshara”. EVERYONE loved her.
She kicked off a golden age for the Kaldorei Empire. It was she who launched expeditions to conquer other lands, it’s under her rule that the Kaldorei Empire became the master of all lands and started erecting golden cities across the ancient world. She forged the most advanced mortal civilization on Azeroth’s history. She brought wealth, glory, fame, and power to the Night Elves people.
And you’re just going to ignore all that and judge her by what happened in the last year of her millennia-long reign… I can’t but smell an agenda here.
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I’m not saying that Azshara didn’t do good at one point. She clearly did.
I’m not saying that Azshara was always evil. She wasn’t.
But she’s not good anymore (whether she could become good… as a Christian I’m reluctant to say anyone’s irredeemable, but this isn’t real-life and Azshara… that’s a tall order).
There’s also some telling bits of lore from official sources. Quotes;
“Azshara was adored by all kaldorei, but she reserved her love only for her Highborne”
- Gadgetzan Times/A Magical History of Azeroth
“There was, however, one location that the queen sought to avoid: Mount Hyjal, the sacred mountain refuge of the elusive Wild Gods. Unsettled by the Wild Gods and their wild, untamable homeland, the queen publicly prohibited any attempts to expand into Hyjal under the pretense that she wanted to respect the night elves’ kinship with the forests, even though in truth Azshara actually despised the mountain and the harmony it represented.”
- World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 1
“Xavius helped the queen communicate with Sargeras, whom she told of her desire to cleanse the world of the lesser races.” (emphasis mine)
- Various quests and items from Legion
Sorry, Chronicles is Pantheon propaganda. Of course they will demonize Sargeras and his allies.
We should wait for The Last Titan.
The first and third point were clear on Azshara’s evil and not from Chronicles. A lot of her lore is outside of Chronicles.
“…her desire to cleanse the world of the lesser races” is pretty damning evidence of her being evil.
If you like her, that’s fine. If you think she’s not evil, that’s one thing we don’t agree on.
I already debunked this dumb theory during bfa when everyone was added deaths to her, like “ho she died when n’zoth turned her into naga and died in eternal palace”
thing is, she died ZERO times!!! Stop saying she died, she did not die in the warbringer, she did not drown, as she was turned into nagas before that point, and she did not die in eternal palace either as she was just knoecked out.
Nowhere is it said that she died, and NO n’zoth did not resurect her!!!
That theory of putting her into the N’zoth prophecy was never pushed by any in game claims, unlike Alleria that once said she died already 2 times.