My point was proven long ago regarding your hypocrisy. But thanks again for the deflection, further solidifying said point.
EDIT: And thanks for the bump so MORE PEOPLE can get involved in sniping! I’m talking about getting OTHERS involved so THEY can BENEFIT.
Good, all for others benefiting from premades! And for those who enjoy the benefits of premades, feel free to join them more directly so you don’t have to rely on the “chance” of getting into one.
Not quite, there was no concrete conclusion to be had and we fundamentally finalized our debate.
I don’t make a habit of talking to the forest.
You believe it isn’t exploiting since technically multiple steps can be taken to group queue.
I believe Blizzard removed group queue functionality from AV because they intend on you not being able to do so.
That’s all she wrote.
The problem is the MAJORITY of those running AV CANNOT join the premades UNLESS they snipe. I made Rank 7 and have a epic mount but I CHOOSE not to.
Oh…and thanks for the bump!!!
He just said earlier that he doesn’t mind people sniping, and that he does it himself (or at least uses premades). And you are saying “Yes people snipe more!”
Did i miss something?
Go follow the entire thread and you can see he is not for sniping. He doesn’t snipe because he doesn’t need to being part of a premade already.
He did say he “solo ques” half of the time which is not the same as sniping.
I think there is a heavy dose of sarcasm in there…
I see how this can be a bit of a catch 22. In order to defeat the thing everyone hates (Pre-mades) you must in a sense “join” them by sniping. 
Speaking to others.
If you have an Epic mount, that is the ONLY condition. If you don’t, then please try sniping to increase your chances of winning AVs. Otherwise, you have every means to join public premades. Or, perhaps someone can start a 60% mount premade discord.
I made Rank 7 and have a epic mount but I CHOOSE not to.
Your choice. We’re not talking about you, though. I thought we were helping others win?
Oh…and thanks for the bump!!!
You’re welcome? You keeping thing this negatively affects me? Not sure you’re thinking straight…
It 's definitely educating people on how to snipe a AV so if that’s your position then all is good. Let’s keep bumping this!
You’re spot on. Her perceptions are based on bias, don’t mind her/him, whatever.
And I also solo Q, and I also do the snipe tactic if I don’t feel like committing to the premade channel, if you care.
I saw that you solo Q but must have missed the part that you use the sniping tactic.
Well then let’s keep bumping this! We agree that sniping is good.
TBH I’m more surprised that the one post made by Bruce (about locking people out of content) caused so many more posts to be made. It was so obviously a troll.
Again, never discouraged sniping. My whole point in this post, regarding sniping, is that I’m clarifying what sniping actually does because there appears to be some misunderstanding that premades rely heavily on snipes to to be successful, and that sniping hurts them.
That is not the case.
If there is anyway for Alliance to further increase their win ratio, while Blizzard doesn’t make a decision on this issue, I am for, not against. Hopefully you get this cleared up.
This makes sense. I have no doubt that sniping in it’s current form doesn’t negatively affect premades. I do believe that it does offer the opportunity for everyone a chance to get some extra honor and wins if that’s what they want. Personally I have done almost everything in PUG unless I “luck” into a premade which have been horrible experiences despite getting honor. Virtually every time a premade came on board, I would get messages telling me I was being reported as AFK. I am sure that many premades don’t do this but enough do bring this toxic behavior. You don’t need a lot of it to kill. It’s like spilling oil in a body of pristine water. You don’t need much to destroy the entire ecosystem. I just see sniping as the only way a little guy can fight back and have some chance. I want to see the most possible amount of people to be able to participate and this is the only solution unfortunately. If Blizzard would just remove the BG#s this problem instantly goes away and we have to figure out strategy and coordination just like the Horde PUGs do now. It will make the Alliance better as a whole.
EDIT: The reason why you don’t see me pushing on getting rid of AV#s, or about Horde racials, terrain advantage, or how Drek or Vann are pulled because those are things we know Blizzard will not “fix” because we get it with ‘warts and all’ which is OK with me since I signed up for that. People crying about Vann being pulled with a “exploit” is completely moot IMHO.
Yes, we are in agreement. If the Pug isn’t intentionally sabotaging the premade, and wants to help out to get a win for everyone, absolutely awesome. Do it! Snipe away!
Virtually every time a premade came on board, I would get messages telling me I was being reported as AFK. I am sure that many premades don’t do this but enough do bring this toxic behavior.
Yes, I have seen this and I honestly don’t know which premades do this. And to be clear, those are their emote texts, not actual afk reporting. This is same behavior as those opening up IF portals at the gate. F’em. I can tell you that ALL the premades I’ve been involved in, do not do this. Or at least, not by command. If there is an a-hole in our premade who decides to do that, we can’t control them. But we can report them for “abuse” in our channel and possibly get those with toxic behavior banned from the discord.
The only time we legitimately report someone as AFK is if we see them doing nothing the whole game to contribute, and/or fishing. Nothing a PUG wouldn’t also do.
I want to see the most possible amount of people to be able to participate and this is the only solution unfortunately.
Yes, and for those who want to, and can, take it a step further to actually join the premade, I pass on such information. Been my point from the beginning.
If Blizzard would just remove the BG#s this problem instantly goes away and we have to figure out strategy and coordination just like the Horde PUGs do now. It will make the Alliance better as a whole.
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I’ll believe this when I see it. My recent PUG experiences have been too toxic to have faith in coordinated efforts. Gone are the 1st two days of Drek rushes, where everyone actually agreed on a tactic. But the moment adaptation is required, people fall apart with different strategies, no agreement, and huge arguments when ONE out of many strategies fail. Even back in Vanilla days, Alliance often loses, and it was primarily PUGs.
But to clarify, public premades are not immune to this either. We’ve had cases where someone attempts to lead, calls out a strat, it didn’t work, the lead didn’t know how to counter and comms break down. Sometimes arguing ensues, sometimes someone picks up and we try to agree on a strat. So it really is just a PUG of random people with discord access.
EDIT: The reason why you don’t see me pushing on getting rid of AV#s, or about Horde racials, terrain advantage, or how Drek or Vann are pulled because those are things we know Blizzard will not “fix” because we get it with ‘warts and all’ which is OK with me since I signed up for that. People crying about Vann being pulled with a “exploit” is completely moot IMHO.
Meh, nothing I haven’t seen before 12-15 years ago. Just about everything has been a repeat argument, and we already know the result… it turns into retail WoW.
I have seen plenty of toxic people in AV who insist on NOT helping the team accomplish goals. The last few days however I have been in some decent PUGs that do not give up and end up salvaging some decent honor. TBH, if I get 2000 honor in the match I’m happy win or lose.
I would love to see Alliance side get better in PUGs and give the Horde a run for their money. Despite what we see, I believe we can get it done. Then again I am being optimistic here but we can always dream.
EDIT: I played Horde for 99% of my WoW play time but I rolled Ally this time with my friends. I want to try and get this side better in BGs and that is part of the challenge. There’s no better feeling than turning around a losing team and watch the mentality change. I think Horde side is better not because of some MAD SKILLZ they have but because of the mentality and team work they have. We have too many Lone Rangers.
I see this too, and it’s baffling how noticeable it is. I’ve jumped between Horde and Alliance throughout my WoW years into WotLK, and Horde has always been relatively more coordinated, or at least, more willing to work with each other.
This is my first experience on this side and it’s literally herding cats.
The big brained play is to run away from the SL/SL lock since we can’t chase down anyone.
I think you’re doing arena talk now.