The horde created it by turtling. Premades came as a reaction to scorched earth turtles. No revisionist history.
Just as irrelevant as your original red herring. I merely responded in kind as you reminded me of what drove me away from raiding.
Also my comment regarding malice stands. Turning a blind eye or not caring if one’s behavior affects others in a harmful manner for selfish concerns is right up there concerning amoral behavior.
Hope you address this because it’s the crux of the issue.
Well said!!!
So your enemies do a tactic you disagree with because it makes your desperate search for ingame currency prolonged, so your tactic of dealing with this is to stomp a horde pug and if your own faction gets smashed in empty av’s thats the Horde’s fault as well?
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FTFY, sorry to hear that, bub
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I’m just going to condense the response, since this is now relating to trying to understand the intention of AV, and/or how it was used back in the day.
So I’m gonna go out on limb here and say that you weren’t really around during the Vanilla AV games, since you don’t appear to know how it was done. Given that, I can’t say that you have enough information to decide what is considered intention here.
Many of what happened back in Vanilla, happened here. Just not in such a large scale because Vent wasn’t something you can easily invite a thousand people to join, and it was mainly just setup as a private server.
In the examples I explained about raids doing Qs, I’ll clarify that they don’t just all automatically grab any Q that pops up. What happens is they see the AV# that pops, then they broadcast their AV# either in Vent, or Guild Chat.
Then the same concept occurs. A tally of the game #s are done manually, and the raid/guild decides what’s worth taking. Anything that isn’t worth taking, is dropped… essentially this is known as “Q dodging” today. Those who dropped will try to manually Q into the AV# of choice, or try to start another Q and figure things out as it unfolds.
The point here is, anyone who was attempting to group into AV, does not take the Q right away. It’s discussed ahead of time what everyone has before committing on which game to take. Essentially, this is the exact process that is happening on the Premade Discord. In fact… the people who made the discord, pretty much based the concept on what happened in Vanilla.
They just made it more streamlined and automated with today’s available technologies. Which again, may be something Blizzard didn’t anticipate… or did they? Discord’s functionality isn’t new.
So, working as intended? Debatable. Not so black or white.
No.
What happened in was people who wanted to rank up made premades on WSG sat on vent all day and versed Pugs from the same realm. Av could last 30 minutes or 5 days.
Then cross realm bgs happened and People who wanted to rank up used Vent queued as a group and did WSG all day versing other pugs and premades from the cross realm bgs. And Av still went for 30 mins - 5 days.
I can switch to my toon with vanilla PvP titles if that will help.
So you’re saying that queue dodging and forcing empty AV games occurred regularly in vanilla?
And that the individuals in the empty games are experiencing the game as intended?
Was this common in vanilla based upon your experience? What was your vanilla PvP rank?
This was my vanilla experience as well.
Apparently there was AV queue dodging and empty games - shoulda known! Just you know, never saw one. Ever.
Of course this is anecdotal, maybe others encountered them on a daily basis.
My point stands. Group qualifications… not sure how that was irrelevant to the topic of … qualifying to join a group… My intention and your intention to join, or not join said group, is irrelevant.
Yes, your point of malice is made. I also made the counterpoint that Horde’s advantage and griefing for honor, which inconveniences/harmed many in the process for hours on end, falls into the same category of harming someone for selfish gains. Are you mad by both? Or have you some how decided one moral issue was more acceptable than the other?
Private group versus random public queue. The group is fine, the exploitation of the queue system resulting in empty games for numerous players is not.
Morally they are both reprehensible. But one conforms to Blizzard’s stated game play and use thereof mechanics.
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Except by camping a flight master or whatever your griefing is, doesn’t grief your own faction like your actions do.
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I’m saying Q dodging happened in Vanilla. How regularly, I’m not sure. I only know of my realm’s guilds, I wasn’t monitoring others. But fact is, you keep saying that AV was not intended for group Q. My example says otherwise… or at the very least, group Q’ing was available and not discouraged. So you can’t say that Blizzard didn’t intend that. At the very least, it’s debatable.
But you’re changing the subject. Pick one. Are you saying that it’s not intended that a good chunk of games start with half a team? (which btw, happened in Vanilla, but I don’t recall what the frequency of it was). Or are you saying it’s not intended to form a group with AV? Both are very different subjects.
I don’t know how my pvp rank is relevant to this discussion, nor is it any indicator of anything outside of time invested. Think I was 8 or 9, but can’t remember up to what version it was by then. Regardless, I was around to play the 48-72hour AV games to get my TuF and Don Julio’s Band.
So by your logic, it would be ok if whatever premades do, only negatively affects the opposite faction? How… how does that even compute?
Did you ever encounter it, once?
These are correlative factors.
You seemed concerned with experience on the topic from vanilla, so I inquired if you had any.
Yes, im your enemy however you choose to prosecute a war may cause some ire, but its far better than doing it to your own people. Which YOUR actions create.
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You are incorrect and that is a red herring- a classic textbook example actually. First and foremost there was no talk of RAIDS until you decided to bring it up as a red herring. Look up the definition if you don’t believe me. Also a RAID is a closed group by definition and there is no collateral damage that occurs to other people not part of the raid. In the case of PREMADES, the que dodging affects countless other players on the same faction.
To compare PvP behavior in a PvP BG to que dodging and doing harm without care is a LITERAL STRAWMAN. We are not discussing Horde behavior here but rather the negative impact premades have on the Alliance. First and foremost they are doing what one of the many things that are allowed and even encouraged in a BG environment.
The Horde is our enemy in-game and anything goes during a BG. I hate being camped at SHGY but there are solutions that are immediately available via PvP. There is no way for Alliance PUGs to deal with the crap their very own faction is handing to them on a regular basis. Now you are justifying your stance on premades despite knowing full well it is adversely affecting FELLOW ALLIANCE players.
Please stop with red herrings and strawmen to make a point because it’s logical fallacy to do so.
Encounter what once? Everything that’s occurred in today’s premade woes, I’ve encountered back in Vanilla. Just not to the frequency that it’s happening now. Which is why I’m not the least surprised of anything that happens in AV right now, and I don’t make a big deal out of it. If you want to be more specific, or if I missed your point, I can clarify.
These are correlative factors.
So then by this logic, if we can establish that Blizzard didn’t have issues with Group Qs, then they should also have no issues with the consequences of Group Qs? Hmmm.
You seemed concerned with experience on the topic from vanilla, so I inquired if you had any.
Fair enough. Yep, I’ve been around.
Where is any cheating involved?
Of course not, you reap the benefit thereof and only others are left with the consequences of your actions.
This presumes a BG that has no built in function for group queue, which others do, was intended for group queuing.