I’m glad it’s improving your experience. I sincerely hope Blizz patches this so everyone can have a balanced, equal, vanilla-like experience.
This meta is broken and sucks for everyone =(
Good luck getting into them, I hope you have some solid wins!!
Surprisingly only one was a 7 minute win, the rest Horde were actually able to get a decent amount of bonus honor, but we still won.
Hmm, I’ll go back to the Horde advantage in World PvP, where camping/griefing were rampant. Not necessarily intentionally malicious, but it was the best method for Horde to gain Honor… yet, that action inconvenienced, or harmed, others in the process.
In what way? The concept here is about a group with a specific purpose. That group created a prerequisite for the purpose of securing a higher chance of success to a specific activity. To join said group, you must meet a threshold of said prerequisite. The activity is irrelevant.
In a public, randomly queued BG, there are no private groups. You can have the group, sure, but exploiting the system to force additional members in and leaving other out in the cold isn’t just entirely non-vanilla like, it’s cheating and cruel.
In a raid, it is a set private group that has no queue system designed for a certain implementation. The implementation of the system is designed for certain groups of players to zone into the same ID intentionally.
No, this is an enthymematic argument and the principal is not self evident due to the different natures of the raid group v. AV single queue implementations
There is always an advantage one way or another. In this case, it’s formed by certain players cheating.
Indeed, yet the intended means of wPvP was maintained - naming, wPvP happens on PvP servers regardless of relative server balance and density.
Indeed - the result is the relative queue times for each. However, that does not support the conclusion:
Where “it’s” refers to premades, which exploit the advantage of queue times to break the intended use of the system and disenfranchise all players not involved in the premade group.
Want to premade? Go to WSG.
Agreed, you can group with like minded players as you see fit. Yet forcing additional battles to generate then queue skipping leaving empty games is outside of the intended use of the queue system.
Once again, illogical conclusions.
If I lead a professional football team and have set requirements, they are expected to then compete within the defined rules of the system.
I don’t take them to the golf match and have the O line tackle the golfer on the tee box and rush the ball to the hole.
The activity and scope thereof, in conjunction with the implementation of the activity, are what determine appropriate use of a system.
Yeah, when we see the sub-7 teams we rush our zugzugs forth to cap what we can lol
If you read Blizzard’s description of PvP servers, this is the acceptable use of the system.
Where is the “Group Queue” button for AV?
I do appreciate the degradation of the justification back to P2 was harsh argument though.
The irony when most of those are actual, legitimate excuses.
The numbers next to the BGs. Blizzard assumed people would be smart enough to use those to group together. They overestimated the zugs.
The numbers facilitate people selecting a specific AV, then clicking queue. There still is no intended group queue function, such as the WSG group queue button.
If premades all selected one battle, queued for it, and had as many people get in as possible, it would be 100% all good and working as intended.
false equivalency
Odd that you used that on me, when this is precisely what you just did. You intentionally changed the scope of the example to fit your agenda. Your example suggests playing a completely different game, not at all relating to anything I’ve pointed out.
So here’s the thing. You’re claiming premades are not the intention of AV. But have you truly played Vanilla AV? Back in the day, after a raid, groups would all Q up for AV in an attempt to join the same game. Used the same communication concept (ventrillo) to coordinate.
Usually the group is split into a couple of games, but there’s a good chance a good chunk of the group got in together somewhere. Those who didn’t would choose to select the AV# to try and join. Now, back then, games were long enough that when you wait long enough, you could eventually fill into the same AV#.
Granted maybe Blizzard didn’t anticipate premade-ing to this extreme, but you can’t say that there was no intention to form some sort of premade given you have the choice to select specific AV#s.
Not sure what you thought the intention of this was for. When have you looked at the BM and decided, for no apparent reason, “Hmmm, 43 up here looks good. Yeah, 43’s my number today”.
If premades all selected one battle, queued for it, and had as many people get in as possible, it would be 100% all good and working as intended.
If you’re ok with this, then good news. Premades do sometimes do this as well.
I thought false reporting people is bannable?
Both of these are irrelevant to that specific discussion you quoted me on. In Raylene’s own word’s, I’m making a Moral Argument here.
Yeah, not a great example - it falls into my availability heuristic.
Alternatively, in a pick up game of football you have enough players for numerous teams. Everyone draws straws for team A or B. One team can redraw straw until they have close to the preferred composition, while the other team can only draw once.
Indeed, and we also certainly never were able to get the majority of a team from the raid - even when it was confined to one server. I hit r9 or so in vanilla and never experienced an AV premade once.
Did you have consistent AV premades with a majority of a raid team in vanilla?
Precisely, in this case a certain number would randomly enter the same game - and others would then pick the specific game to enter. This was facilitated by multi-hour games; which is very much unlike what we have currently.
I agree the number can be used for this; however, the queue dodging re-queue mechanic to force a majority of a team into a game was not exploited in the same manner.
There are numerous intentions for it, which I haven’t speculated on. Yet if the intended use is to facilitate majority-team games, there would be a group queue button as well.
In vanilla, I would look at 43 and think - yeah, nah, yeah - I just left that 4 hour turtle and will queue solo for 52 instead.
Or, my friends happen to have gotten into 62, I’ll solo queue for that as well and may have a spot.
Yet the main mechanic of exploit relies upon queue dodging. You’ve mentioned multiple times you utilize queue dodging in your premade.
Are there premades that solely state: we are all going to queue for match 4 now and take it when it pops? If so, these are working as intended.
No - the specified use by the developers are definitely in consideration.
I never made a moralistic argument.
You are relying on something within intended use to justify an exploit.
It is against ToU; probably not bannable though - unless a repeat offender I’d guess.
ToU is intentionally vague to facilitate Blizz taking action when they think it is justifiable.
So your 100 of the thousands of Av’s happening daily is indicative of the behaviour of public premades?
Well you know that by failing to join a game when it pops that this is the result, so yes there is malice attached as your own ingame currency search is more important that your fellow faction members you allow to be stomped by going in undermanned.
You and your friends created this empty Av game and you condone it by doing it.
Don’t try and distance yourself like you’re not apart of it.