Obviously depends on the situation but if Alliance came up with the genius meta of zerging IBGY and Horde declared it to be unbeatable, yeah it would mean that.
I think the most probable fix would be to change how cave spawns work. In TBC they fixed it so you could never end up respawning in the cave unless you have 0 graveyards. I’ve been in plenty of matches where the alliance wiped horde several times in mid to end up getting stuck and attritioned after contesting IBGY.
There is a double edged sword with the alliance cave. If they die at SPGY after its capped they get sent to their cave essentially putting them on the wrong side of their best choke, requiring all of them to recall(which honestly is hard to get people to do). They could however take advantage of this by just assaulting SPGY from the cave but at this point the team has been split in 2 and horde are already sitting out front of the cave.
No…the issue is that once Horde tag SHGY they have an incredibly strong choke to set up and bottle up Alliance, plus IBGY rezzers can reach SHGY faster than Alliance rezzing at SPGY. When Alliance cap IBGY the Horde spawns MUCH closer than SHGY rezzers (at the cave)…and 20 a time. Oh and they have multiple avenues of attack instead of a narrow choke. All Horde need to do is tag SHGY once. They don’t need to roflstomp Alliance to pull that off.
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So it sounds like it’s pretty darn important to stop H from tagging SHGY. At least not without gaining something of equal value.
95% win rate should be the only evidence Blizzard needs to rationalize and make adjustments. The rest is conjecture and biased drivel. The evidence supports OP, and so does my own experience, and so does the hard data. So Blizzard should step in to bring health back to AV, or not be surprised when people keep leaving because PvP is almost impossible for most players in the current conditions. Its this lopsided AV or facing a WSG premade - the regular alliance player has lackluster options to say the least
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Yes, obviously. But there isn’t an objective like that for Horde, which is one of several reasons the map is imbalanced in Horde’s favor. There shouldn’t be 0 room for error on one side and massive room for error on the other.
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+1 For a good post.
Well from every av i have seen the reason why alliance aren’t getting as far down the map is because they aren’t running straight down it like the horde, they stop and move as a pack around the horde and end up dying.
So the reason why they are getting farmed isn’t that horde is faster, so many horde players suck at mounting where you have level 100% mount speed lagging behind 60% every map.
The only reason the cave moved back was because of the boycott after horde premades started giving alliance 7 min games instead of the alliance giving the horde in 1.12.
Alliance aren’t losing because of the map is probably the truest thing in the thread, but because of that loser mentality that ruins games in retail and in 1.12 av the horde had in classic when people would let alliance win by having 20 players afk.
Boomers are probably the right word for that. Boomers never accept responsibility for their actions in to days world and their personally groomed millennial/zoomer ponies.
Boomer generation was my parents. its ok - most kids dont understand generations anyway.
Next, the boomers actually changed quite a bit for the better. I dont like them but its true. The victim mentality wasnt as bad as it is now till the millennial generation. - but dont let facts get in the way of a bad narrative.
Lastly - see how you tried to pass blame again… Typical millennial
pretty sure i have been saying this for some time about the other side of that coin. You guys botch the Vann cheese pull - you can reset and do it again. We botch prospector he dies and there is no single pull.
Funny how i can prove you are biased as hell on your posts just by pointing out what you are ignoring that is “inconvenient” for your team.
Give the OP the gold star. Please. He 100% nailed everything on the head that is wrong with AV. AND HE IS HORDE. Pre-mades are the ONLY way alliance ever have a chance at doing ANYTHING in AV because of this ridiculous map. It truly is absurd the advantage horde have. Either allow premades again or fix the god damn map.
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none of what you said even makes sense in todays AV climate. its not possible to have 10 people sit in towers south to burn them or even get to the towers when 30 horde turtle every game
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Exactly! How the hell do we spawn at SP when horde takes SHGY but if we take IBGY horde is rezzing in thier close af cave? Why arent they sent to FWGY?
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OP finally an ubiased opinion too its refreshing to see… its too easy for horde players to say “we just win every game because ally suck” lol even the full ally prems lost games before the most recent hotfix because its just too easy for horde to defend the ibt/ibgy choke. Ally doesnt really have that option even when we defend bridge (which was the biggest single argument for horde saying Av was alliance favored, they can just backdoor into dun baldar, alliance also has no option for backdooring into frostwolf base. This map is incredibly and undeniably titled in horde favor and I have played both factions. Horde strat is too easy to carry out for victory even without any sort of coordination IBGY is OP as hell as a respawn point for horde. Ally HAS to have an ridiculously coordinated and well composed premade to have any chance to win right now.
I will admit the alliance “just lose” mentality doesnt help at all and plays a huge factor in the 99.9% lose rate but that mentality only exists because of how impossible it is to win for alliance right now. Horde can keep only 15 people on defense and hold 40 alliance back for 40 minutes with too much ease. Theres tons of other factors I could bring up like how stupid the recall spot is for ally vs horde aswell, ally recall spot is like 50 yards away from the gy rez when horde control it, where horde recall spot is right on the steps into drek room and the rez at RH is all the way up the hill way behind the flag, theres many more lopsided features but im not going to get into all of them and I digress.
anybody in denial of how lopsided AV is for horde is delusional or doesn’t want to admit how favored it is for them because it makes their constant dominance in Av feel less rewarding. They want to go on believing that all horde are just better in PVP, which is also not the case. There is good and bad players on both factions horde just has too many advantages and are basically playing with a crutch.
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Your right this lvl 14 couldn’t be a future twink or alt you low iq mongrel.
Alliance is trash at pvp right now in classic.
I don’t remember them being this bad in vanilla but right now is like a whole new level of trash.
- I have never dodged a queue. Hard stop. 15 years playing and i might have missed a few but never intentionally to avoid a premade.
- I agree with you finally. Yes, if you’re dodging queues for easy wins you should be banned.
- I agree with you on the disadvantage on aggro with vann and drek. (But it isn’t game breaking by any means like cheesing the drek pull with a paladin)
- So now you are claiming you know blizzard better - then admit you find a way around the fix they made to stop you from premades? Weren’t you just arguing they don’t care about it and they allow it? Me thinks you’re confused.
I’m all for fairness, but the moment you change one thing you need to look at the larger picture…So what happens next if Blizzard changes the cave position? Are things now magically equal? That’s a giant NOPE
- Now you need to make our FWGY choke just as good as the SP bridge choke somehow
- Either move all the NPC’s in ally base out of the way, or move all the NPC’s in Horde base to positions where ally running by will aggro them all
- If Horde cave is moved back it needs to be placed on a hill overlooking FWGY just like ally cave is overlooking SPGY
- Probably a ton of other things I can’t think of right now, but you see once you change one thing it affects more than just what you expect it to change.
While we’re changing things then get rid of both sides “backdoor” to the enemy base, also link the warmasters/marshals to the boss, Bosses should be unkillable with them alive. Bunkers on both sides have their pros and cons so I guess those are fine.
TLDR, #wehavehadenoughchangesbutifyour’regoingtochangethingsthenchangeeverything
You do realize that Alliance regularly used to just push through SF pass before the current meta, right? Horde can reach the Alliance-side entrance to SF pass prior to Alliance players in full mount gear because their cave is closer to mid than the Alliance cave. I honestly can’t believe there are people who still want to debate this.
(1) You can’t really do the Pally pull in a PUG anyway, so kind of irrelevant to this conversation.
(2) Even if you could, botching it wipes you and will usually causes you to lose any foothold you had in FW, whereas botching the Prospector pull just means you have to start pulling marshalls). You don’t kill Drek in time…wipe. Somebody kills the paladin and nobody went with him for secondary aggro…wipe. Someone runs in front of the pally and aggros WMs…wipe. Literally one mis-timed heal / aoe … wipes.
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Reroll Alliance, spend months in AV, and then we will see how you feel about it.
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