I don’t think SPcave to SPGY is comprable to FWcave to IBGY.
First. Being at such a huge disadvantage at IBGY essentially shuts down any offensive for the alliance. Maybe they get IBT if they are lucky. having the advantage of easier recapturing of SPGY would mean the horde have already taken SHGY and both bunkers(usually) and horde still having full access to the northern part of the map.
Second. SPGY is a worthless flag for the alliance unless they are trying to hard push all horde out of the north of the map. Alliance should just give up SPGY and fall back behind the bridge to defend the back door and the bridge at the same time and not be stuck in the cave when horde have captured SPGY and are rushing to take Aid station.
You are correct in the assessment that the alliance cave spawn is a good advantage though. If alliance forfeit SPGY to the horde and hold Dun Baldir, Any alliance dying on the offense can effectively rez and kill horde from the rear and negate any progress to push across the bridge. It’s a good delaying tactic.
However, There is 0 reason other than for fun or to complete the Ice barbed spear quest to ever delay the game longer as alliance. The game gives almost 0 incentive to do it with our short queue times.
Even then, If the delay tactic is effectively used. How do we take IBGY if horde decide to defend it? The delay tactic only really works if horde are somewhat evenly matched with alliance and don’t just deathball through the defenders or get a good flank on the backdoor. So a win condition would be for horde to not defend IBGY against whatever the alliance can spare not defending Dun baldir.
I have been remarkably patient with you as you continued to talk past me and insult me every single time you posted. It is a shame you were never really interested in talking.
In the end, doesn’t it really come down to this though? We can talk about imbalances here and there, but does actually matter if the Alliance know that its not worth trying and want to lose quicker?
What it sounds like to me is that the Horde make it very hard for the Alliance to win because they’ve got long queue times. And the Alliance are not choosing to defend because its better for them to lose quickly.
You admit that the Alliance could retake SPGY easily from their cave, but for some reason its “useless to do so unless you want to push all the horde out”…but why wouldn’t you want to do that?
alliance lose because they are plain bad backpedaler carebears, i check at the end the stats the bottom is always blue with many 0 on killing blows and hks while the top is always red with bunch of players having +15 kb
Because it would require us to first overcome IWB choke and retake SHGY, Then we are in the same position as the start of the game. Allowing horde to have SPGY would allow us to flank the bulk of their respawning force there so we can get through IWB choke assuming horde don’t leave anyone to defend that either.
But do you understand that when you say that the Alliance are giving up because its not worth trying…it is hard to attribute losing to anything but “giving up?”
I’ve already conceded this, I’m arguing on the fact that even if alliance didn’t give up, the map geography isn’t on our side if horde utilize any of it. So what’s the difference?
It is very hard to get any real idea of map balance when people are giving up, or being afk or non-participatory. I 100% believe the Alliance believe they’re at a disadvantage because they’re losing…but they’re losing because they’re actively giving up.
Well, when the map offers up an easier time and strat for your opponents, that can both deflate and alter your motivation in to how you want to play AV. And let’s not forget the que times also play into this motivation.
For myself, I don’t give a damn about who wins and 9 times out of 10 I don’t even stick around to see that.
I’ve won won match (pug vs pug) since I started grinding for the ring, played it out to the end to experience how rewarding the path to victory on the alliance side would be. The match last over an hour and the rep gain was ok, but hardly worth the trouble and effort.
As such why would I bother doing that again?
On the flip side, just due to how the map is laid out, the path to victory is such smoother ride for the horde, I’d try to go for that all the time! For sure.
Naw, I’d rather do all my hand ins, take the afk hit, grind on my alt or play a match of Overwatch, then flip back on and do it all over again.
I think we fundamentally agree then? That Alliance are not there to actually try or they’re there to get rep and leave? Or that it is not worth the time requires to win?
Maybe it is any of those reasons the Alliance are losing.
Stop saying that the alliance in this thread agree that we have a bunch of players afk.
We don’t. In some games, some alliance go afk after 20 minutes and losing SHGY. The game is over at that point. But again, that’s only some of the games. In most games, the alliance continue to fight but it’s a losing battle.
I already explained to you that we routinely win the first few large engagements but it doesn’t amount to anything because of a endless stream of reinforcements from the horde cave.
Fyi, I see just as many horde fishing in the lake south of the bridge if the alliance hold out for over 30 minutes.
You continue to be disingenuous in your arguments, and you are not arguing in good faith and ignore everything that we say that is contradictory.
Saying that we can’t talk about the map being imbalanced without proving 100% that the alliance tries equally as hard as the horde is an argument ender. No one is going to create that perfect environment that you want in order to prove the map is imbalanced. The map is imbalanced. You can look at it and see. There is nothing that you can say that is going to change the geography of the map, which objectively favors the horde.
You dont get a 99% win rate based on a few alliance going afk in a few games.
The only way for the alliance to overcome the horde map advantage is to have a precise level of coordination that is simply not possible in a PUG.
WoW pvp has always been a joke of a ride. I’d rather play another game to get my PvP fix on.
If you play this game for the PvP, my condolences. You will be making lots and lots of forum posts based in frustration.
Even as a horde, any player worth a damn or wants something competitive has to find a hollow experience playing a game where nobody cares about the outcome.
I mean you can only gy camp for so long before the entire experience is just dumb. I know. I’ve played that game out.
You can’t enjoy victory unless there is a threat of defeat…that’s just how it works.