But the problem isn’t the map, it’s alliance perception of the map.
Horde have some advantages in AV, alliance have others, overall the map is a small factor for the winrate issue. A much bigger factor is how the alliance play/strategy on the map or the lack there of.
The winrate of each team would be very close to 50-50 if the map was the only factor, the problem is alliance do not try to win, they don’t try different strategies, they don’t adapt to the war scale PvP.
I’ve seen so many alliance mages using frost bolt instead of blizzard in massive fights when horde are clustered together in natural choke points. I have not seen more than a handful of alliance use any form of consumables in AV (not even cheapy potions) and I’ve seen a large handful of them not even eating/drinking after they won a fight because they didn’t get a mage to make it and don’t want to use their own… The consumables being used by horde and not used by alliance is a direct effect of the que times. And it makes a big difference.
mana pots dont really help on large scale pvp. its actually better to just drink or run in, die and rez. your queue times allow you the time to farm them. alliance queue times dont. yes alliance dont even know how to get the trinket but dont disregard how powerful the IWB choke is. put 10 horde there and your golden. The bridge requires alliance to sync up the trinkets if they even brought them.
all of the alliance gy are bottle necks. spgy will usually have horde attacking from above and tab targeting through the mountain.
I know that you are trying to convince alliance to come back… Its just too much guaranteed honor for horde to quit queueing too.
For Those of you saying that AV is not dead look at how many AVs are running at one time. Then realize that East coast is back in the Same Battlegroup as West Coast. After that you realize there are only hundreds alliance throughout Na that play AV. Not even 1% of Alliance are playing AV. So, When it gets down to 3 or 4 games going on at a time. that means only a couple hundred are playing. This means that AV is essentially dead already it will just be more dead in the coming weeks
It’s not though you and the druid are so blind it’s disgusting. You’re either dumb or trolling there is no inbetween.
The game is super simple to understand why it’s in it’s current state and no amount of deflecting will change the point.
Horde progress the map faster than the alliance
Horde can full send to SH or wherever they want because even if they lose IBGY they only need to softcap SH and can use their own cave to retake IBGY
If Alliance full send to IBGY and lose SH any single player that dies goes back to SP. This is a 45 second run back to SH minimum and over a minute to reinforce IBGY.
To sum this up so your brain can understand. Alliance have to defend SH while taking IBGY. Horde only need to take SH.
I have tried with them both. They are lost on the concept.
They truly think either they are just so good at AV that they win almost every game. Or alliance are just that bad at 1 of the 3 BGS. The other 2 bgs we are fine in but for some reason we can’t figure out how to cap a graveyard in AV.
It blows my mind. Tbh they truly must be trolls at this point.
True. There really is no reason to queue AV as Alliance.
It also unfortunately means ranking is significantly more difficult unless you run with premades. Those running premades are still putting up a ton of honor while those solo-queuing are getting less honor with no good bg options for grinding.
pretty easy to find a premade on alliance. just not if you are a horde warrior. its primary class that ranks anyway. not many other classes need ranking gear.
What makes it even harder is let’s say you wipe Horde on their push to SH…
You then need to leave 5-10 people to defend SH in case of stealthers, stragglers and people who are hiding or else they can contest SH.
You have IBT and the IBGY trap, now you have 30 players that need to split to either push and contest the tower.
Horde can drop off the side of IBGY from that little cliff, that means you need to leave 5-10 people there to fight them, that’s if their mages and locks aren’t standing on the ledge aoeing down or having hunters just pop people from the safety of the ledge.
You now have 20 people to split between pushing IBGY/IBT while Horde can hold IBGY with 10-15 people due to the choke point.
That gives Horde 25-30 players to jump off the cliff at IBGY and then push outwards.
As Alliance you literally have to split your forces 4 ways to take IBGY and keep horde from capping SH. The AV map is easy mode for Horde. If Alliance cave was close like Horde cave was, SH would always be contested, though the Alliance choke points do more to keep Alliance trapped than keep horde trapped.
Did anyone on the Classic dev team actually do any testing during this time? These are massive oversights.
You have made excellent points in this thread. You may have not budged those two, but I know anyone who read what you wrote was given solid anecdotal evidence.
Here’s the thing, no one disagrees that “players who use consumables and proper skills shouldn’t have a high winrate”. Once again, WE AGREEEE. The horde is probably better overall at pvp, no argument. However, NO ONES WINRATE SHOULD BE 0 or 1% after 50 games. Even bad players in other BGS have a higher winrate than in AV. Even amazing alliance players have ATTROCIOUS winrate in AV (1-10 wins out of hundreds). Because even against the WORST horde comp, alliance has to play realllly well. You skip over our point every post about how we do fine in other bgs. Once again, I deal with bad attitudes in WSG AND AB , I manage to win there from time-to-time. In other games, I deal with toxic players and bad attitudes, my win/loss ratio is still isnt as bad as AV. that’s our point here, and every time you manage to ignore it.
And you people using this argument refuse to acknowledge how the massive team sizes on AV magnifies the snowball effect of a portion of your team not participating
10v7 isn’t that big of a difference, could go either way
40v30 is a different story altogether
The larger the team sizes the more a “mob mentality” has an effect on the outcome
And the “mob mentality” of alliance in AV is to play passively and assume defeat
Kayberz, when the druid fix was live, many alliance queued with the intention of “okay we can win finally”. Guess what happened when we had 40 people TRYING? I have had MANY MANY MANY games with total cooperation (many games without any as well), the results are always the same.
They don’t. Nobody actually believes the map is balanced. People like Misadventure know that the modern meta has exposed the map as horribly imbalanced in Horde’s favor. But it’s not in their best interest to acknowledge it because,
A: Tribalism is a hell of a drug, and
B: They would lose their advantage if Blizz changed it and human nature kicks in to defend their advantage.
So you see these hilarious attempts to defend their advantage. I don’t blame them, just makes me sad to see such weak-minded people.
And there is the hordie reply who thinks there is nothing wrong. Gotta love these blinded and delusion Horde who think AV is fine. There is a huge advantage for the Horde. Wake up and stop wearing the rose tinted glasses for once.