AV Cave Rez situation

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

I can only speak for my battle group but that was basically my experience as well. The vast majority of games did not come down to alliance trapped north of SHGY. It was either a pure zerg or people wouldn’t start playing D until both sides had an offensive GY. So instead of scorched earth you had delaying tactics while trying to get to the enemy general.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

The people claiming 1.12 AV was nothing but 10 minute rush games are just fear mongerers. Plenty of games in 1.12 AV lasted hours.

Wait, what?

@Ziryus-doomhammer

This is what people really need to understand, you want AV to not be a zerg play some defense. This is something that’s 100% controllable by the player base, what really turned AV into a zerg was adding reinforcements , which won’t be in 1.12.

Yeah, that’s what I thought you said.

Basically 1.12 in vanilla was basically a race/zerg meta, as well as not being a race/zerg meta, and to prevent the zerg/race meta one needs to simply do what you now label “tEh sCoRcHeD eArF!”

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

PS, as a reminder:

2007 called. It want’s it’s “it’s teh map” excuse back.
https://www.engadget.com/2007-06-12-why-does-the-horde-always-lose-alterac-valley.html

Basically, the Horde says that the Alterac Valley map favors Alliance, since Horde have to make it past the bridge chokepoint and the Stormpike graveyard is more secluded and defended than Frostwolf. The Alliance, on the other hand, blame the Horde’s perennial losses on AFK people, a defeatist attitude, and a lack of defense, and note that Horde seemingly has no problems steamrolling Alliance in WSG and AB. In response, the Horde has issued a challenge for Blizzard to flip the AV map and see if the Horde’s win-loss ratio doesn’t turn around.

Now read that first paragraph, and rollaround in ity y goeyness.

2018 weighed in:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2451759-What-side-was-alterac-valley-or-PVP-in-general-biased-towards

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Brokenwind-malganis

Yeah, that’s what I thought you said.

Basically 1.12 in vanilla was basically a race/zerg meta, as well as not being a race/zerg meta, and to prevent the zerg/race meta one needs to simply do what you now label “tEh sCoRcHeD eArF!”

You should probably read what I actually said.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

So instead of scorched earth you had delaying tactics while trying to get to the enemy general.

Which is what I’ve always said, games didn’t become almost all zergs until after reinforcements.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

Backpedal more.

[Elfblade-mankrik]

The only thing I remember about Vanilla AVs was fighting in the field of strife for like 2 hours straight.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Brokenwind-malganis

Backpedal more.

You failing at reading comprehension doesn’t mean I’m back pedalling

I’ve clearly explained that on my battlegroup games were typically not zergs or alliance trapped north of SHGY until after reinforcements.

If your battlegroups was different that’s fine, I can’t speak to your experience.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

@Hawne-blaumeux

The main thing I recall about late vanilla AV was that it was mostly a base race scenario in most games.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

I can only speak for my battle group but that was basically my experience as well.

I see, I must have misread this as you having the same experience as Hawne. Clearly I am the one with the issue with reading comprehension.

In before “well, that depends on your definition of “basically””.

[Meroco-benediction]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

You failing at reading comprehension doesn’t mean I’m back pedalling

And you fail at convincing any of us that you aren’t a lying hypocrite. Keep backpeddling.
troll harder bro

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Meroco-benediction

@Ziryus-doomhammer

You failing at reading comprehension doesn’t mean I’m back pedalling

And you fail at convincing any of us that you aren’t a lying hypocrite. Keep backpeddling.
troll har der bro

Maybe you guys just need to git gud at reading and try harder. Clearly that’s the only explanation for a problem right?

[Meroco-benediction]

Oh you know it, but that is to be expected from such a knowledgeable Stormpike’ian tactician such as yourself.

[Bodicca-westfall]

@Elfblade-mankrik

Ever hear of FotM? Thats short for flavor of the month and its a real thing with WoW and most games in general. Its not limited to OP classes that change on a dime thanks to Blizz’s incessant nerf and buff cycle. It also affects factions and there’s no shortage of discussion on the matter either - like how everyone is afraid a TBC redux will be 90% horde - cuz of fotm.

And YET, as you keep being reminded of… AB and WSG.

Your logic is crazy.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

But according to ziryus the alliance that play AV are not the same players that play the other BGs.

So which is it?

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

But according to ziryus the alliance that play AV are not the same players that play the other BGs.

So whi ch is it?

But they are if you don’t understand why all players have the exact same options for what BG’s they can queue for…

[Jadei-grobbulus]

They were the same players until they gave up on an imbalanced bg. We’re supposed to believe these players couldn’t win AV, but the same players do fine on the other two maps.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

So the alliance players A, B, and C all play pvp. A is good at PvP B at least try to pvp, players C just leach and afk to get carried to their goals.

Player A left AV after premading was killed (without a single complaint about map imbalance…) Player B will go into AV until they have what they need from it. Player C plays almost nothing but AV because it’s so easy to put in minimal effort and still get decent rewards.

This is what happened to AV.

Player A left, player B is sometimes there, and player C is infesting AV for alliance.

The map has some things that should be fixed. But it is not the primary cause of the 98% loss rate that you try to make it out to be.

If the map was such a big deal why would it still become popular on AV weekend for alliance, let alone the huge jump alliance get in winrates when more A and B players are playing in it on AV weekend?

The map (SFGY Rez at ASGY) accounts for maybe a 40/60 split at most. The rest is player made issues.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

The map (SFGY Rez at ASGY) accounts for maybe a 40/60 split at most. The rest is player made issues.

Yep it’s entirely player made. The players avoiding AV while also beating horde in WSG/AB have no idea how to pvp and they don’t understand how maps can impact the game.

Still waiting on why the horde that dominate in AV can’t do the same in WSG/AB.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

Que time vs Game duration, HPH, the chance of having dead weight players on your team (can’t premade) due to the sheer number of leachers afkers and bots (blizzard got rid of most of the bots) all focusing on AV as their “grind”, exc.

And you think the good players are avoiding it because of the map… Even historical evidence points to you being wrong. Heck the history of classic points to you being wrong. None of the premade AV players complained about the map, the map complaints only came in after premading was broken. Because alliance need something to blame other than themselves… It can’t be because of the bot infestation alliance AV had when premades got broken and it took blizzard months to fix. It can’t be because the bot infestation made group C the prominent player type in AV after the bots got removed because people gave up from having 20 bots on their team every game for months. It can’t be because que times vs game duration has an effect on motivation. It can’t be because of so many other reasons, it MUST only be because of the map and NOTHING else…

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

Que time vs Game duration, HPH, the chance of having dead weight players on your team (can’t premade) due to the sheer number of leachers afkers and bots (blizzard got rid of most of the bots) all focusing on AV as their “grind”, exc.

And you think the good players are avoiding it because of the map… Even historical evidence points to you being wrong. Heck the history of classic points to you being wrong. None of the premade AV players complained about the map, the map complaints only came in after premading was broken. Because alliance need something to blame other than themselves… It can’t be because of the bot infestation alliance AV had when premades got broken and it took blizzard months to fix. It can’t be because the bot infestation made group C the prominent player type in AV after the bots got removed because people gave up from having 20 bots on their team every game for months. It can’t be because que times vs game duration has an effect on motivation. It can’t be because of so many other reasons, it MUST only be becau se of the map and NOTHING else…

So what you’re saying is the AV weekend should just be permanent? Alliance should just have so much bonus honor they will accept the low win rate?

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

It’s the only time players A and B feel the map is worth playing knowing they have to deal with player C, because of the increased rewards. The downside of AV weekend is player C continues to infest it, they just don’t hold a majority on AV weekend because players A and B come back.

And the winrate goes up A LOT for alliance on AV weekend.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

And the winrate goes up A LOT for alliance on AV weekend.

Sure noone has ever claimed other wise.