Retail AV went from alliance dominated to horde dominated to alliance dominated. Like 90% win rates if not better. Same goes for IoC. 40 mans are a different animal and AV hasnt been 50/50 bg since battlegroups were a thing.
Really dont know what your malfunction is but I really dont care either - your shortcomings arent my fault or my problem.
Its not only entirely conceivable that a faction can dominate another like that in AV it is AV. Thats AVs history - a one faction bg. 1.12 Classic WoW AV is not an exception.
All ya gotta do is get real. Whats so hard about that? The alliance are generally bad at AV and its sometimes worse than that. Big deal. Its easier for me to accept because Im not married to this game in such a way that makes me get all emo and stuff so I can hate a fictional faction over a fake conflict in a team sport thats pretending to be war.
And the que times reflected it in vanilla horde had the fast ques and got dominant in AV, in TBC alliance had fast ques and got dominated in AV (even after the cave move). Que times matter for how motivated a team is to play THAT game instead of âmoving onto the next oneâ.
Ever hear of FotM? Thats short for flavor of the month and its a real thing with WoW and most games in general. Its not limited to OP classes that change on a dime thanks to Blizzâs incessant nerf and buff cycle. It also affects factions and thereâs no shortage of discussion on the matter either - like how everyone is afraid a TBC redux will be 90% horde - cuz of fotm.
Well, as witnessed in retail when the theorycrafters do their min max math and popular streamers start proving how great they are by getting every conceivable edge they can and the word gets out that X faction is going to be the faction to play on if pvp is your thing then there is a huge shift in faction balance for the pvp scene.
It usually goes as follows - the popular faction gets all the team jumpers who want to play for the âwinnersâ and the out of season faction is generally maligned with a slew of people that barely care about winning - they are just there for achievements, or pets, or holidays or welfare gear or whatever.
So one faction wins more but have larger queue times and the other faction has great queue times but good games are far and few between. This has been seen over and over and over again.
Its the same thing with classic and since classic is more retail than vanilla we are getting the retail outcome for AV. And if there is any doubt in anyones minds they can always queue AV, play a couple of games and see whats going on. The horde will send 25-35 back to defend IBGY while the alliance wont send 2-3 people to recap a damn bunker.
The horde are freakin better at AV. To even attempt to argue against a 95% win rate is just being obtuse for lame as hell reasons.
Well, according to some, when the alliance goes to IBGY using their pro race anti pvp cubby strat the horde cave spits out an extra 40 horde as well as debuffs the alliance so the horde to ally kill ratio is 3 to 1. Cuz, yknow, level 54 alliance are really good at level 60 pvp.
Except there are more low level horde than alliance in basically every AV and low level players are FAR more detrimental to a team than someones pvp rabking which does nothing to indicate skill and the âgoodâ pvpers were done ranking nearly a year ago so if they are playing in BGs they are not doing it for honor so both sides should be queing for AV similarly and even if not the top pvpers are a FAR FAR smaller section of the wow population than the sub 60 pvpers due to alts. So in random situation the team skill level should lead to close to 50/50 winrates on a balanced map.
Queue times mean nothing to player skill AV gets you nothing at this point in the game so if you are queueing for it its because you want to play it and queueing hours for AV is just as likely to burn out someones enthusiasm to keep playing as it is to make them try harder.
The map is broken and gives horde basically every advantage and not a single person in this thread has been able to offer actual evidence to disprove that. This is also proven by the fact that Blizzard changed the map in the next expac to balance it after introducing the reinforcement mechanics which made it easy to see that the current horde strategy was near 100% uncounterable by making it a direct win condition instead of an indirect one(cant win if you never get south and IBGY is easily the strongest choke in the game anyone who says otherwise does not understand the map and that location of a choke is important and the bridge while physically a harder choke to break than IBGY gives no forward advantage and holding the choke gives the enemy team free reign over most of the map where as IBGY choke protects almost all of the hordes map objectives. And those map objectives give teams tools to crack the defensive advantages of the choke points the problem is they are mostly unavailable to alliance to crack IBGY and are easily obtained by the horde while holding the alliance north of SHGY after they cap it and are holding SP/bridge)
So you have a 90+% winrate on a map that cant be explained by player population and if you think it can go back to school and learn how randomness and statistics work. Which basically proves there is a map problem causing it.
Also how is this afker think still a problem there are AFKers on the horde too. Also they are a tiny fraction of the BG dont think I have ever seen more than 3 AFKers in an AV and had well under a 10% winrate after premades were removed.
Oh then you have the fact that premades vs pugs have like a 99% winrate in AB/WSG yet in AV they had closer to a 70% winrate
The funny thing being that they accuse horde of just zugzugging, then explain that each and every strat they can try is foiled by horde, and as a result all alliance attempt is literal zugzugging.
15 years? The map only existed in this state for less than 2 and that was back when people had no idea how to play and thought MC was hard.
See you know nothing of AV. Stop talking about things you dont understand you just confirm to everyone how foolish you are.
But if you think there is EVIDENCE the map is balanced please provide it because nearly 7k posts in and not one person has managed that yet. To be fair no map denier appears to know what EVIDENCE actually is which is probably why they think the map is fine.
I have given my arguments, they still stand and have NEVER been refuted, go back in the thread and look. If you donât want to be called a fool dont say foolish things. Back up your claims with actual evidence that can counter all the evidence for an imbalanced map. However I have no reason to believe any map denier is capable of this because if they could think rationally and understand evidence they wouldnât be a map denier.
Also private servers mean nothing, there is no record of AV wins and no clue what all changes were made to them.
That may well have been true, but the meta is completely different.
What % of players were ability clickers then compared to now?
The main thing I recall about late vanilla AV was that it was mostly a base race scenario in most games. Alliance should win more often than horde if horde doesnât use the cave respawn to defend IB GY.
I can only speak for my battle group but that was basically my experience as well. The vast majority of games did not come down to alliance trapped north of SHGY. It was either a pure zerg or people wouldnât start playing D until both sides had an offensive GY. So instead of scorched earth you had delaying tactics while trying to get to the enemy general.
You are correct. The alliance meta is heavily influenced by their virtual lack of queue times. The horde are simply playing the BG as it was originally intended to be played, as it was played back in vanilla in fact, before the races began. The alliance meta is âdo not bother with AV, and if you do, do not waste your time on long games even if it results in a winâ.
And yet the biggest map blaming cheerleader of this thread has stated quite clearly that the race meta only really began once the reinforcement mechanic was introduced in TBC. I was kind enough to cite his post above if you feel like scrolling up.
As for the cave respawn stopping a race by alliance? That is ridiculous. Unless you imagine that the race meta included attempts to take IBGY.