Oh yeah, I forgot about all those 51-59s winning 60% of their ABs and WSGs in the 60 bracket. Its almost like those BGs arent comparable or something.
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What you forgot before you went on your screed about FTM classes is that Horde donât win 99% of AB or WSG at any bracket. Aside from AV, the other BGâs are roughly equal. So FTM classes havenât a thing to do with the win rates in AV and they never have.
You just blurt out whatever sounds good in your mind at the time. No thinking it through and without any logic or evidence. In fact, the majority of what you say you go ahead and trot out in spite of evidence to the contrary. Then when someone calls you out on it you ramble off some unrelated nonsense.
Itâs obvious youâre wrapped up quite comfortably in your little fantasy world and have no interest in reality.
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You cant draw any comparisons between a 51-60 BG and level 60 BGs. I get that you guys are desperate because yall lost the debate and AV keeps you up at night but thereâs no comparing them. Forget the logical fallacies and mental gymnastics, its been admitted that âno real alliance pvperâ is doing AV outside of perhaps the holiday weekends so you cant realistically use them to make your case.
AV didnt get changed - cuz theres nothing wrong with it. Case closed.
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Except that is literally not what happened and anyone who was actually playing AV last January knows this. The rankers said they would leave once the premades got killed. Once the premades were killed, they left. How do I know this? My queues went from 40-50 minutes to 1h 10 minutes to 1h 20 minutes the DAY the changes dropped. So no, the players âwerenât all the sameâ back then. A large chunk of the most dedicated and best players Alliance side left before there was even an inkling that the map might be imbalanced. So please, stop with this tired come back. It is trash and inaccurate.
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Give me a break. I was one of those players and if you think I was the only one, youâre a fool.
Whatâs trash and inaccurate, is you believing your opinion is the only one.
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Whatâs trash is you ignoring the fact, and it is a fact, that my statement on that particular matter ISNâT AN OPINION. There are multiple posts on this forum that were made prior to the premade changes. They said exactly what I just told you. Rankers were going to go to WSG so they could continue to roflstomp pugs. It is also a fact that that my queues went up roughly 20 minutes from the day before the changes were made. So honestly, I donât care whether you were one of the players who stuck around after the rankers left. The fact is, that they did leave which means fewer of the good players remained. The other fact is that Horde rankers didnât leave meaning there were more good Horde players to go around on a per game basis.
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I know you all ignore math when it blows up in your face, but these are facts. They arenât disputed by anyone except people like you who want to believe the teams were even. They werenât. Your blind attempts to say otherwise without even one shred of evidence that contradicts mine is pretty telling.
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So why did horde queues go from, using your math, 1hr 10 to 2 hours?
Rankers left, but some of us PvPers who gave everything we had to win still stuck around until we got tired of trying to win on an imbalanced map. You really donât know all the answers so please stop acting like you do.
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But weâre not talking about premades vs pugs at this point. Alliance pugs in WSG/AB do just fine against horde pugs. Yet for some magical reason itâs only AV that they struggle in.
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Because those that enabled a quick race win left and (despite your personal valiant efforts) left behind mostly low effort slugs and AFKers used to being carried?
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I do know the answer to that. Everyone in this thread knows the answer to that. Alliance started losing a lot. At first it was at about a 70-80% clip. After the first couple of weeks losing like that, a lot of players like you (I assume you are pretty good at PVP) left exacerbating the talent imbalance created when the rankers left.
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You keep acting like losing 3-4 players who are good from the Alliance side pugs is no big deal, but the simple fact of the matter is that 3-4 good players get replaced by 3-4 average or worse players. Thatâs a huge deal. Straight up, the queues snowballed at roughly the same rate Alliance players bailed on AV.
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What is frustrating is that is when Blizzard should have done something to try to bring Alliance players back. Instead they left it to rot and here we are almost a year later debating the debacle that is AVâs history.
Alliance pugs in WSG / AB have much better players than Alliance pugs in AV. The only person who even remotely attempts to dispute this is you.
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Iâm just tired of players, like him, who think AV consisted of two types of players - rankers and afk/leechers. Itâs as if players like me never existed in his world and thatâs complete crap.
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Some magical reason that you are on record explaining, being that those that would have put in effort in AV left to play the other 2 BGs. Do I need to add that to the database list of Zyrius hypocritical posts?
How many of those WSG/AB pugs give up the moment the horde capture a single objective? How many of those WSG/AB pugs start the game with at least 1/4 of their team not even trying to win? How many of those WSG/AB pugs have lvl 51-59 level players facing lvl 60s?
I could keep going if you wantâŚ
Right and why are those better players avoiding AV? It couldnât be the map could it? It couldnât be the map could it? And that players who actually care about winning donât like playing on a map when the other side is using a major map advantage against them?
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Do you even read my posts? You donât have to be an AFK/Leecher to be worse than the ranker you are replacing. Thatâs where it starts to snowball. 3-4 players who were good get replaced by 3-4 players who are average, on alts, etc. Thatâs not even mentioning the fact that a lot of the rankers who left popped consumables, had world buffs, etc. for their matchups.
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It is a big deal. You can still have a bunch of really good players trying to win. You just have fewer of them than the Horde did at the time. That matters. I donât understand why you think that doesnât matter?
I do not dispute you an a few others put in the effort. A number of others posted in this thread their frustration, not with the map as much as frustration with players on their faction just adding dead weight to the team. Those that were being carried before by premades and yourself, are now left to be carried by you alone. Even Zyrius is on record stating that effort-players left. The more of the effort-players leave, the quicker the queue times for alliance get, and the more attractive leeching becomes.
It doesnât matter âwhyâ they are avoiding AV at this point. The fact remains that your entire point about âWhy are Alliance pugs in AB/WSG able to compete when they canât in AVâ is answered by this very statement. The good players on the Alliance side arenât queuing AV. Why would Alliance pugs in AV be remotely even to their AB/WSG counterparts if the good players arenât in there for one faction?
Rankers and good are not synonymous. Dedicated, Iâll go with, but they were there for fast honor. They rushed from DB to FWK and rarely dealt with anything in the middle of the map so map imbalances had no relevance to what they were doing.
Thereâs a chunk of players that stuck around, did have to deal with the middle of the map and the imbalances until it just stopped being fun. Stop acting like we didnât exist.
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So you claim the people who care about winning are avoiding AV but it doesnât matter why?
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Stop acting like I said you donât exist when I have clearly stated in several posts that you did.
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Rankers are generally better at PVP than people pugging. They arenât all better. But the average ranker will be better than the average player pugging. That was especially true early on when a lot of the rankers were players who also doubled as some of the best raiders. It isnât some diss to say that when the rankers left a lot of talent went with them. Thatâs not saying all the talent went. It isnât even saying that all the rankers were good. It is saying that 3-4 of them were replaced by 3-4 players who werenât rankers and that the average player queuing who isnât attempting to rank isnât as good as the average ranker queuing.
The âwhyâ has no bearing on your point, so no it doesnât matter. The why matters in different context and regarding other points. But specifically comparing AB/WSG to AV? No, the why absolutely does not matter.