AV Cave Rez situation

[Hawne-blaumeux]

Yeah, having an extra 2 GYs on each side would help prevent that, but perhaps the map might have to become too long to enable that.

With the choices they made, this is what we have.

[Corpseknife-mankrik]

Ahhhh the myth of the cave push back. Even queue times will go down with this one magical trick!

Im all for the cave push back on the grounds Im just sick of hearing about it and I dont think it will make a lick of difference.

[Bodicca-westfall]

And you continue to claim that all the changes in Classic don’t count because they haven’t MOVED anything.

Like, that’s where you draw the line, man. And it’s an arbitrary and illogical line. It has nothing to do with “warts and all” or #nochanges.

We passed that point a long time ago.

[Bodicca-westfall]

@Tigolbidies-kelthuzad

If you came back to classic to play av and now want av to be changed. It stops being classic.

Uh, no it doesn’t. Classic and Vanilla are very different animals.

We wanted Vanilla.

[Zaalg-mankrik]

@Bodicca-westfall

And you continue to claim that all the changes in Classic don’t count because they haven’t MOVED anything.

Like, that’s where you draw the line, man. And it’s an arbitrary and illogical line. It has nothing to do with “warts and all” or #nochanges.

We passed that point a long time ago.

You’re comparing apples to oranges. Oh no, you don’t have to click shift in order to auto-loot. See, they changed Classic! As if that’s any comparison to moving a spawn point in AV.

Look, if you want changes, fine. Obviously I disagree that should happen and it goes against the very reason Classic was made. But don’t hide behind this ‘#nochanges is dead’ nonsense. Because it isn’t.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Zaalg-mankrik

Look, if you want changes, fine. Obviously I disagree that should happen and it goes against the very reason Classic was made. But don’t hide behind this ‘#nochanges is dead’ nonsense. Because it isn’t.

In regards to pvp and AV in particular yeah it’s pretty dead.

[Zaalg-mankrik]

That so? I’ve seen someone say they changed the shape of a mound of dirt. That’s the extent of the changes. You want to compare that to moving the spawn point or changing where players rez…a change that would drastically change the entire bg? Yeah, that’s a valid comparison.

Here’s the problem. Let’s say Blizz does that. Let’s say they listen to the small handful of qqers and changes the AV map. Open the floodgates. Because there will instantly be a million threads about a million changes that should/need to be implemented into Classic. And Blizz would have validated that mentality that if you whine enough, they’ll listen.

We’ve been down this road before. You know where that leads: never-ending complaints. Everyone unhappy. No one satisfied. At the same time the authentic nature of Classic is thrown in the trash. Blizz cannot go down that road again. Once they open Pandora’s Box, there’s no closing it. There’s 15 years of evidence dictating that once Blizz goes down that path it will (not may, but WILL) end in disaster.

Leave it as is. Vanilla means Vanilla. That’s why Classic was made. To forsake that…well, what was the point? Deal with it. Ziryus, you especially have no room to talk. You championed this 1.12 AV drivel. So now live with the consequences.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Zaalg-mankrik

That so? I’ve seen someone say they changed the shape of a mound of dirt. That’s the extent of the changes. You want to compare that to moving the spawn point or changing where players rez…a change that would drastically change the entire bg? Yeah, that’s a valid comparison.

Here’s the problem. Let’s say Blizz does that. Let’s say they listen to the small handful of qqers and changes the AV map. Open the floodgates. Because there will instantly be a million threads about a million changes that should/need to be implemented into Classic. And Blizz would have validated that mentality that if you whine enough, they’ll listen.

We’ve been down this road before. You know where that leads: never-ending complaints. Everyone unhappy. No one satisfied. At the same time the authentic nature of Classic is thrown in the trash. Blizz cannot go down that road again. Once they open Pandora’s Box, there’s no closing it. There’s 15 years of evidence dictating that once Blizz goes down that path it will (not may, but WILL) end in disaster.

Leave it as is. Vanilla means Vanilla. That’s why Classic was made. To forsake that…well, what was the point? Deal with it. Ziryus, you especially have no room to talk. You championed this 1.12 AV driv el. So now live with the consequences.

Blizzard has already been making changes to address issues in classic not just in regards to AV although those changes which are more than just “changing the shape of a mound” are particularly relevant.

So I’m sorry but the #nochanges argument is dead. If you can’t argue for or against a specific point we can only assume it’s because you don’t understand the details and have to fall back on #nochanges which you also fail to understand is a dead argument.

If you were genuinely for #nochanges you would be arguing for all changes to be reversed not using it as a counter to some changes but not others.

[Zaalg-mankrik]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Blizzard has already been making changes to address issues in classic not just in regards to AV although those changes which are more than just “changing the shape of a mound” are particularly relevant.

So I’m sorry but the #nochanges argument is dead. If you can’t argue for or against a specific point we can only assume it’s because you don’t understand the details and have to fall back on #nochanges which you also fail to understand is a dead argument.

If you were genuinely for #nochanges you would be arguing for all changes to be reversed not using it as a counter to some changes but not others.

This is the point I’m arguing: #nochanges is not dead. It’s been utterly validated. They have changed nothing of substance. Nothing anywhere near that would have the impact of what some people are asking for. They’ve done tiny little things…and yes, I do think they should be reversed. But you comparing the minuscule things like auto-loot to a game changing aspect of AV is laughable. They’re not even close. They’re not in the same ball park. You’re playing Little League on Mars.

So the best, only argument needed here is this: Vanilla means Vanilla. Deal with it.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Zaalg-mankrik

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Blizzard has already been making changes to address issues in classic not just in regards to AV although those changes which are more than just “changing the shape of a mound” are particularly relevant.

So I’m sorry but the #nochanges argument is dead. If you can’t argue for or against a specific point we can only assume it’s because you don’t understand the details and have to fall back on #nochanges which you also fail to understand is a dead argument.

If you were genuinely for #nochanges you would be arguing for all changes to be reversed not using it as a counter to some changes but not others.

This is the point I’m arguing: #nochanges is not dead. It’s been utterly validated. They have changed nothing of substance. Nothing anywhere near that would have the impact of what some people are asking for. They’ve done tiny little things…and yes, I do think they should be reversed. But you comparing the minuscule things like auto-loot to a game changing aspect of AV is laughable. They’re not even close. They’re not in the same ball park. You’re playing Little League on Mars.

So th e best, only argument needed here is this: Vanilla means Vanilla. Deal with it.

That’s fine if you don’t want to believe #nochanges is dead that’s on you.

But the fact that you are okay with some changes but then turn around and try to use #nochanges against things you don’t want to happen just makes you a hypocrit.

[Drinknblink-whitemane]

@Zaalg-mankrik

Leave it as is. Vanilla means Vanilla. That’s why Classic was made.

Ok than if so you must revert the pre-mades. They were also in Vanilla.

You can’t sit here and preach no changes after changes have been made to specifically nerf one faction.

[Graal-bloodsail-buccaneers]

You asked for a single change earlier in the thread. I provided several.

AV Cave Rez situation

We could start with AV itself. In vanilla, when an alliance character died fighting at SFGY before and it wasn’t hard capped by alliance, he would respawn at SHGY. Now he respawns all the way back at AS. In vanilla, when an alliance character died trying to defend SPGY and it got capped while he was dead, he respawned at AS, now he spawns in the starting cave. That’s two, just from AV, and there are more differences as well, of course, since they’ve specifically made changes to AV since launch…

Which, of course, you never responded to.

[Zaalg-mankrik]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

That’s fine if you don’t want to believe #nochanges is dead that’s on you.

But the fact that you are okay with some changes but then turn around and try to use #nochanges against things you don’t want to happen just makes you a hypocrit.

What changes do I believe in? Please name one. Oh wait, you’re just making things up…like you’ve been doing for years. Going back to your Wall of No days when you insulted anyone who wanted Vanilla servers to begin with.

To the above poster: SHOW ME. Don’t just say…this is different. That is different. Provide proof. Provide evidence. No one has done that. AV changed a lot during Vanilla, so who’s to say people aren’t remembering an earlier version? And if it’s different…yes, that’s bad. If Blizz wanted 1.12 AV (and they did), then that’s what they should provide. Or are people basing this off private servers? Did they ever stop to think maybe private servers got it wrong?

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Zaalg-mankrik

@Ziryus-doomhammer

That’s fine if you don’t want to believe #nochanges is dead that’s on you.

But the fact that you are okay with some changes but then turn around and try to use #nochanges against things you don’t want to happen just makes you a hypocrit.

What changes do I believe in? Please name one. Oh wait, you’re just making things up…like you’ve been doing for years. Going back to your Wall of No days whe n you insulted anyone who wanted Vanilla servers to begin with.

You’ve said you’re fine with the changes that have been made to AV so far already.

[Zaalg-mankrik]

Right, so me saying they should revert them means to you that I’m fine with them. Interesting.

It’s amazing how people see what they want to see.

[Voidous-emerald-dream]

Alliance. Just boycott AV garbage until fixed. Ignore those stories about amazing Horde PvP players… Where’s amaziness in AB and WSG?

[Hawne-blaumeux]

That is the reason why I made this thread. Other threads note the imbalance, but I wanted to make it clear what it actually is. I plan to try to keep this thread up high until we get an answer as to why the cave rez is being left as it is.

[Zejung-wildhammer]

Because they actually play WSG and AB?

[Lease-sulfuras]

@Misadventure-herod

alliance’s best choke is at their base, overwatched by 2 towers and a stationary elite and roaming elites behind.

It doesn’t matter. Yeah, we can hold the SPGY choke for hours but eventually you will summon Lokholar and take it, even if we kite him to our cave.

You just admitted that the only position the Alliance cave helps to hold/take back only comes into play once Horde controls 90% of the map and can’t be realistically beaten anymore.

[Zejung-wildhammer]

SPGY and the bridge were the reasons why Alliance won AV back in the day. Horde just figured you out or the alliacne forgot how to win