If you want that cave moved, wait until they release TBC-Classic or whatever it’ll be called. In patch 2.4 they moved it back.
Hes asking for the cave Rez to go away, which also in TBC, but that’s the only fix that will balance AV.
Cave Rez changes are 2.3, cave getting moved back was 2.4.
Preach brother been saying this forever
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I’ll bet you 5g the alliance will still lose AV, even with that fix.
I’ve been in several AV’s recently where the alliance has changed their strat and they actually beat us. It’s not impossible if you work for it.
But it’s much easier to demand changes than adjust your strat isn’t it?
By all means show me ANY screen shot of current AV win rates by an Alliance toon who even has a 15% win rate.
Any screen shot at all, go ahead I’ll wait.
I don’t keep track of win rates. Show me proof that these cave changes will actually make you win more. I don’t think the cave is the only hurdle you have to jump over.
Although the cave gives us a slight (repeat, slight) edge, it is not the deciding factor on whether we win or not.
It’s not a “slight” advantage…basic math tells you that.
If I walked up to you and give you a scenario and not even include it’s from wow and said.
Army 1 spawns 20 at a time and is 20 seconds away from an objective.
Army 2 spawns 10 at a time and is 50 seconds away from the same objective.
Which one is going to win the objective?
I’m sure you can answer this unbiased.
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Imagine if the Ally cave was located at the “Sawmill” just north of SHGY, do you think horde would stand a chance taking it once we start pouring out 20 at a time right there?
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If your first objective is SHGY, then you’re doing it wrong. You’re supposed to hit SFGY first. Alliance always takes that, then moves onto Galv. Read that book and you will see the light.
No one spawns 10 or 20 at a time. When the game starts, everyone moves out of their cave at the same time. If you die, you might have less people. There’s an incentive, don’t die.
Typical idiot who doesn’t understand even the basics of how AV functions.
This is the type of moron who defends AV and thinks it’s fine.
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Funny how the one non-mirrored BG has one faction with a 99% win ratio…
Nah, they just tRy HaRdEr DeRp
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The funny thing is that the cave isn’t even the biggest map issue in AV.
I mean even that wouldnt be close to even, cause at SH when defending from the south there is a giant flank that horde can take if the Alliance push the horde back too far and the horde can come from behind and cap, where the IBGY works in exactly the opposite way where the defenders have the flank on the offense to drop down on the Alliance backline.
It really is astounding how whenever you start to actually look at the AV map nearly every location gives horde the advantage.
Hell even SH when capped by the horde becomes an incredibly strong chokepoint preventing people from going south.
It is amazing that anyone can look at AV and think it is remotely balanced, not sure what takes more denial of reality thinking the AV map is balanced or that the earth is flat.
So you ignored the question??
Taking SFGY means nothing, it’s literally the same as SHGY, we lose at IBGY, why bring any other graveyard that’s north of that into a debate.
We need IBGY to go south…not sure what you’re thinking. Our first actual objective is IBGY, because ultimately that’s where we will lose.
Go ahead and answer that question tho. If you answer it honestly, you will have your answer why we can’t hold IBGY.
In my scenario above our first objective is IBGY, I’m not even sure you understand why AV is broken for us if you think SHGY is our first objective…we already own it.
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At this point anyone denying that AV isn’t broken has mental issues… Blizzard dropped the ball on this originally and it blows my mind that its still in the game…
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her der I am horde her der 99% win rate her der AV isnt broken her der
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Time for a list of Horde advantages in AV
-Horde cave position allows easy defensive reinforcement advantage of first GY
-Starting positions mean Horde reach Alliance at Alliance side of map
-Starting positions mean Horde can softcap SFGY with no competition
-First GY for horde has an incredible Chokepoint with no flanks for Alliance to take
-First GY for alliance has a massive flank that can be used if Allaince push slightly
-Horde Captain is signifigantly stronger than Alliance Captain
-Horde Lts are in better defensive positions than Alliance Lts
-Horde towers have better defensive coverage than alliance bunkers
-Horde shamans summon Lokholar on Horde side of FoS and up a cliff
-Horde have terrain advantage when assualting SPGY
-When Horde capture SP Alliance spawn in the wrong direction to defend base
-Horde have easy access to Lokholar before reaching a GY where they have a spawn disadvantage
-Ivus is spawned in the middle of the FoS on the horde side of the halfway point
-Horde wolves are far faster to turn in then rams for alliance
And Alliance advantages
-Bridge is better defensive choke into base(negated by cave spawn)
-Bunkers are slighty harder to solo cap than towers(two people negates this advantage)
Yep map is fine, Alliance clearly only have a 1% winrate due to not trying and being bad…
Pretty sure I missed some just wanted to go through all the advantages for both sides I could come up with…
feel free to add to the list anything I missed…
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It really depends on how the flow of the game would change.
As of now, the 2 most important determinants of victory (i.e. why the horde is at a 95-99% win rate) are the cave respawn being put into play immediately after IB GY is soft capped and the horde starting much closer to the middle.
Everything else is sort of just a wash. If those 2 get changed then we’ll probably see a lot more even games because some advantages are much bigger compared to others and depend on team comp and other things.
i.e. I could see the alliance bridge defense being spectacular if alliance has a lot of mages/hunters. If we get a new meta after the cave situation is changed, that could enable a much stronger last line of defense than horde has when alliance reaches FW GY and horde reaches SP GY.
But we need to really get to that point first. And for that, the cave situation needs to change.
I would be very interested to see what meta comes from the cave rez changes. At first I thought it would just go back to both sides zerging, but Horde will still have very long queue times even with more Alliance queueing which will encourage them to play long games. So yeah we could actually see hours-long slugfests for glory and honor.
Blizzard, for the love of Thrall please do it or at least tell us why you believe adhering to nochanges is more important.
Yeah, I don’t think horde is incentivized to go to an all-zerg kind of game unless queues get under say 10-15 minutes. I don’t think they’ll go that low.
That was why horde was “okay” with the first week or two of all-zerg games with the horde losing but getting 3k rep off Bal and the LTs around SH GY.
Much more likely is a hybrid offense/defense game with horde sending 25 north and 15 south and alliance being forced to mimic that kind of a strategy (25 offense, 15 defense) at least if horde takes SP GY much quicker than alliance takes FW GY.
That’s the point at which I’d expect alliance mages/hunters (anybody that can delay at the bridge) to be sent back to Aid, and it’d be interesting to see which defense breaks first.
Either way, I think we’d really get good games if the cave situation is changed and alliance can develop an offense. It really opens up the possibilities for strategies and how the game plays out…
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