AV Cave Rez situation

[Bodicca-westfall]

@Zaalg-mankrik

but the reality is that Classic is a recreation of Vanilla,

No, it’s not. There are dozens of changes that have been made to Classic.

[Hyrum-netherwind]

@Misadventure-herod

Hence what I wrote

Sorry, people have stopped reading what you write.

[Vince-pagle]

@Yloh-kromcrush

This whole position of the map is just yada yada.

I think the entire point fixing the map is to hopefully get the people that care back into the instance. Alliance AV devolving into nothing but alts and rep farmers is a symptom, there are obviously Alliance that play and care about winning but they’re not queuing for various reasons. Any positive change for Alliance would entice me to queue again in hopes that the BG would actually be competitive again.

[Hawne-blaumeux]

I’m fine with a longer delay to opening the horde gate, whatever is needed to balance out the map, whether that’s 5 or 10 seconds or longer is immaterial to me if it means the teams meet in the middle.

I’m not sure they’d ever implement randomized starts though, that really would be hard to explain as making sense for classic.

[Zaalg-mankrik]

@Bodicca-westfall

@Zaalg-mankrik

but the reality is that Classic is a recreation of Vanilla,

No, it’s not. There are dozens of changes that have been made to Classic.

LOL, ok. People keep saying that and providing zero examples. One person said they changed the terrain in AV. Howso? What did they move? What got adjusted? Was it just a glitch fix? Are you sure it wasn’t made by 1.12?

They haven’t touched actual content, and they won’t.

[Fasciae-fairbanks]

@Misadventure-herod

It is not bunk, and I have seen it repeatedly throw confusion into the horde team. And nowhere did I state that anything should “only” be soft capped, but rather to not have your whole team trying to hard cap a single objective like IB, where you create a single target.

So again, the entire strategy relies on the Horde losing their collective minds as 10 or so Ally try to take and hold IB while another 10 or so Ally try to take and hold FW and both get wiped by 10 or so Horde who keep cave rezzing and reinforcing faster than either Ally group can rez and reinforce…

Bunk.

@Misadventure-herod

On paper, sure. In reality that is not the case. Of late alliance HAVE actually been pushing south at the get go, and damned near every horde goes chasing them down south. Guess what that results in? You guessed it: horde pushed back on their heels and forced south. That alone cancels out the “horde cave too close to SH” argument.

Holy crap this is stupid, like blitheringly so.

If the Alliance zerg rush south past IB into FW or beyond, any resistance by Horde will tax the Alliance and shove them back to SH at the closest whereas at worst the Horde rez in the cave in double the numbers. So again, you have to hope that insufficient Horde go south to crack the offensive while the mindless Horde pushing north somehow fail to take SH from 15 or less Ally defending.

/facedesk

@Misadventure-herod

That is precisely the point. Or you can continue to focus on one thing at a time. However that doesn’t seem to be working out very well for you.

AHAHAHAHA

Yeah muting from now on. You just admit that the only successful strategy for Alliance is to take a grand gamble at the very beginning of the game that will ensure a speedy loss and no reputation gains on the slim hope the Horde are stupid enough and poorly played enough to just… not turtle up and beat it in a mindless zerg?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

We’re done here. You’re the worst troll I’ve seen in a long time.

[Yloh-kromcrush]

Very true man. I took a break and queue’d into the rep farm AV. It was 10 players pushing in raid chat to farm rep and quickly turned into, “they are doing it, I might as well join them.”

[Hawne-blaumeux]

This is why I think it’d be better for both sides. Current AV is nearly as bad for horde as it is for alliance because the lack of alliance PVPers queuing is bad and the fact that games are boring slogs featuring the same bland scorched earth meta is bad.

Based on how low AB/WSG queues are for horde now, I do think it’s possible that horde queues could reach as low as 30 min on AV and possibly lower during AV weekends if the map is changed.

A huge part of the AV problems is that alliance players don’t want to play on this map, and who can blame them.

[Misadventure-herod]

@Fasciae-fairbanks

So again, the entire strategy relies on the Horde losing their collective minds as 10 or so Ally try to take and hold IB

Why do you insist on “and hold IB”? And YES, throwing disruption into the horde ranks WORKS. You are splitting up the defense until something DOES hard cap, or a large portion of the horde forces are south. If you cannot grasp how this is valuable, I am not going to handhold you through it any further.

@Fasciae-fairbanks

AHAHAHAHA

Yeah muting from now on. You just admit that the only successful strategy for Alliance is to take a grand gamble at the very beginning of the game that will ensure a speedy loss and no reputation gains on the slim hope the Horde are stupid enough and poorly played enough to just… not turtle up and beat it in a mindless zerg?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

We’re done here. You’re the worst troll I’ve seen in a long time.

Please do put me on ignore, so I do not have to bother with any more of your ad homs and misinterpretations. Enjoy what you are currently doing that is clearly not working.

[Bodicca-westfall]

@Zaalg-mankrik

One person said they changed the terrain in AV. Howso? What did they move? What got adjusted? Was it just a glitch fix? Are you sure it wasn’t made by 1.12?

• You can no longer climb the waterfall and enter the Frostwolf base near the Relief Hut.
• You can no longer climb the cliff and enter Dun Baldar near the Aid Station.
• You can no longer bypass Icewing Bunker.

@Zaalg-mankrik

LOL, ok. People keep saying that and providing zero examples.

You’ve been given many examples.

@Zaalg-mankrik

They haven’t touched actual content, and they won’t.

And as I’ve said, claiming the dozens and dozens of changes made to Classic “don’t matter” because they haven’t moved something is ludicrous. All the changes Blizzard’s made to Classic are made to impact content and how the game is played.

[Zaalg-mankrik]

You can look at the AV patch notes and see all kinds of ‘fixed terrain exploit’ examples. So it may very well have been changed in late Vanilla. If not, and this is new to Classic obviously it’s bad. But you don’t compound bad changes with more changes. But if you think I’m trusting what random people say on this forum with no evidence you’re crazy.

But even if what you say is true they have not changed content. They haven’t adjusted a raid boss’s hps. They haven’t changed the layout of a dungeon. They haven’t adjusted spell numbers, or items. It’s all 1.12. As is the design of AV. What you’re asking for is TBC AV. That’ll come in time. As will a million other adjustments and ‘fixes’ that came about when TBC launched. You really want to start picking and choosing what’s acceptable to jump the gun and implement? Just because this one instance is what you value? Other people value other things, so let’s change those things to suit them? Come on…use some common sense. That will end horribly.

[Tigolbidies-kelthuzad]

They are not fixing the overall design of the damn map. And that’s what would need to happen for this to get balanced.

This is classic. You thought you did, but you don’t

If you came back to classic to play av and now want av to be changed. It stops being classic.

Go play another game ffs. Classic or world of Warcraft in general are not balanced for pvp.

So playing this game for pvp is just being ignorant

[Nightcrawlr-mankrik]

they can change they map if they want.

it won’t change the win rate though.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Misadventure-herod

Why do you insist on “and hold IB”? And YES, throwing disruption into the horde ranks WORKS. You are splitting up the defense until something DOES hard cap, or a large portion of the horde forces are south. If you cannot grasp how this is valuable, I am not going to handhold you through it any further.

The issue is that while that is happening horde have almost certainly soft capped SHGY and without a GY south alliance at this point have no effective way to get back south to help.

[Snacks-rattlegore]

They physically altered the size of the hill behind DB to stop people from jumping.
They could very easily change the cave timer, where people res, or even the cave position.

[Sephîroth-old-blanchy]

@Tigolbidies-kelthuzad

This is classic. You thought you did, but you don’t

I wonder where all the people went who used to like posts like this.

[Misadventure-herod]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

@Misadventure-herod

Why do you insist on “and hold IB”? And YES, throwing disruption into the horde ranks WORKS. You are splitting up the defense until something DOES hard cap, or a large portion of the horde forces are south. If you cannot grasp how this is valuable, I am not going to handhold you through it any further.

The issue is that while that is happening horde have almost certainly soft capped SHGY and without a GY south alliance at this point have no effective way to get back south to help.

I like that you choose to insert words like “effective”, so you can lawyer it up when players call you on the fact that what you outlaid is true for both factions going in their offensive directions.

[Hawne-blaumeux]

The problem is that horde soft cap SH GY first and need less defenders to take back IB GY.

Both of those factors make it more likely that horde ends up capturing the first offensive base as opposed to alliance.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Hawne-blaumeux

The problem is that horde soft cap SH GY first and need less defenders to take back IB GY.

Both of those factors make it more likely that horde ends up capturing the first offensive base as op posed to alliance.

And because of how strong the choke at IWB is makes IWB/SHGY significantly harder to either retake or bypass for alliance than IBGY is for horde. Giving horde a much easier win from that point on.

[Graal-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Hawne-blaumeux

All of this is why the optimal pug strategy is to take the closest GY and establish that as your forward operating base. Anything else risks a much higher chance of failure.

I really wish they had made the BG less linear than it is and more of a ladder layout for GYs. That would have made the games far more dynamic and much more fun. Aside from the issues with SHGY and IBGY, it really is just “bash your entire force into the next GY”.