You got me there! This is probably true.
I executed the Vann solo pull as primary tank at least a dozen times.
It wasn’t that hard. Just bring prospector a little closer to the middle with my 1h+shield on, use white hits down to 15-20% and press esc when it runs away.
Vann runs to me alone. I pull him to the corner and tell everyone to stay inside even if they get aggro.
Did it fail at times? Of course. Did a dumb hunter or mage or lock get aggro and run out and reset Vann? Yeah that happened too.
Success rate wasn’t that of a Pally pull, but I had games where alliance was on WMs and we Prospector pulled Vann and won just as alliance was on Drek.
I’m glad both cheese methods are gone.
Now hopefully back to discussing the cave.
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Cave is where it is, because that’s where it was the whole duration of vanilla until the last major patch of TBC when it was moved.
If you want that cave moved, you’ll have to wait until the TBC servers come out.
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#signed. I would also prefer the cave changes. Would be nice to at least have a snowball’s chance in hell of getting queue times to a point where I am willing to queue up more than once or twice every few weeks.
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Exactly. I feel like retail has the balanced version of AV too IIRC
Here’s your answer:
For examples, check out this: Alliance Winning AV (On AV Weekends Only) - #130 by Graal-bloodsail-buccaneers
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So far, I’ve won every match this AV weekend. Yes the matches were closer due to alliance having a lot more geared players and playing as a more cohesive unit (in many games alliance played more cohesively than horde, i.e. sticking together and focusing on a single objective… yet still lost).
But the ONLY matches where alliance developed offense were matches where too many horde zug zug-ed north and went and stayed at SH GY for 2-3 minutes before realizing “oh crap alliance is about to cap IB GY, let’s go back down” so alliance actually got the cap.
It was basically 30 alliance sitting at IB GY and only 5-10 horde defending for the first 4 minutes of the soft cap in those games. After 4 minutes, the number of horde defenders hit 20+ but it was too late because we didn’t have enough rounds of horde cave rez waves to wipe IB GY before the hard cap.
Okay, so what does that teach you? In games where horde is too sloppy, horde can lose IB GY.
But that doesn’t prove anything about the cave defense of IB GY, it just means a bad horde team (one that doesn’t listen to people in the chat yelling “WE’RE GOING TO LOSE IB GY, GET DOWN THERE FAST” - quoting myself) waits too long to use the cave defense until the hard cap is less than a minute away.
That proves nothing.
And in those games that I played this weekend… horde still won by eventually sending 25-30 to stall at the village or IBT area and using the cave to continually send reinforcements there.
Meanwhile the other 10 horde on offense cleared away towers using the head start at SH GY and grinding away north.
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There’s nothing to address.
Stop trolling.
The cave gets moved in later versions of AV. Play those versions of AV if you have such a problem with it.
Blizzard isn’t going to rebalance things for classic. We knew what we were getting into, and when the devs said “You think you do, but you don’t”, we swore vehementy otherwise; we did want this.
Asking for balancing changes like this would be proving that dev right. It’s no different than asking for Ret paladin buffs.
This statement flies in the face of every change that’s been made to AV in Classic. Pre-mades in AV existed in Vanilla. BG numbers existed in the queue in Vanilla. Cave camping without honor being stripped existed in Vanilla. Terrain work-arounds existed in Vanilla. Single pulling Drek and Van existed in Vanilla. And so on and so forth.
But I don’t see you asking for those changes to be reverted.
A ton of changes have been made to Classic AV, but a balanced map isn’t one of them. But let’s not ask for that change because #nochanges. At this point in Classic that meme is totally meaningless.
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You think removing a number is on the same level as moving a cave res back? That’s a completely different level of degree.
And while premades existed, they weren’t as abused as they were in classic. That’s why it got changed, because it was abused.
Blizzard doesn’t want to incentivize griefing other players. Once again, not on the same level as moving the cave res.
Yes, they fixed exploits.
None of what you have listed is on the same scale as moving the res back, nor would i even consider it a rebalance.
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Exactly, something that existed in vanilla but wasn’t abused then but was being abused in classic got changed. That’s the same situation as the cave, horde are abusing their map advantage in ways they didn’t do in vanilla.
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I believe they change it to cave as a last resort come BC when the horde cave is moved back. The map may be unbalanced but ive lost 5 avs this weekend because the alliance actually tried and some stupidty on the hordes part. Either way the alliance have shown they can win avs with a little effort.
All these topics about the av map being unbalanced wouldnt even exist if the horde just rushed. Instead we would have topics on how the horde suck in av.
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I see you enjoy grasping at straws.
Cheers.
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Yes, this is basically all true.
I mean, I have been in games where alliance hard capped IB GY several times this weekend because horde was way too slow to react (i.e. only a handful of people tried to defend the first 2-3 minutes of the IB GY cap timer), but still won those games.
Reality is, it comes down to how horde plays unless the teams are hugely imbalanced. If horde goes full out zerg, it’s a possibility horde can lose. If horde defends well, horde should win.
If you have comparable teams on both sides and horde sends 20+ defenders to IB GY early, there should be no way alliance can hard cap it.
That’s basically where we are now, where alliance zerging IB GY makes sense but it’s just hoping that the horde are too slow to send players to defend.
But all of this is why I made this thread. The only alliance strategy to develop offense is based on the hope that the horde don’t use the cave defense at IB GY. That’s not a fair map by any definition if one side’s optimal offensive strategy is entirely reliant on the other team abdicating their optimal defensive strategy.
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Except they did rebalance things for classic because they removed premades which were possible in vanilla.
So the change that helps you is good I guess, but every other change is off-limits.
Cool.
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No it isn’t. It changed the face of AV. You’re trying to claim changing the way AV is played isn’t the same as moving a cave - which changes the way AV is played. That’s just kooky.
Farming spawn points in BG’s isn’t griefing. It’s been going on since the beginning of BG’s and Blizzard’s been okay with that. Now suddenly it’s griefing?? This is dishonest BS on the part of Blizzard and cowardly on your part for supporting it.
Spirit Guides now apply Honorless Target to the players they resurrect.
** Developers’ note: We observed some behavior in Alterac Valley that can only be described as griefing—a violation of the In-Game Code of Conduct.*
How often is the spawn point camped in AV? How about WSG? Yeah, complete dishonesty, here.
World of Warcraft Classic
If you do not wish to engage in regular PvP combat in WoW Classic, you must create your character on a Player versus Environment (PvE) realm. On a PvE realm, you can freely choose when you want to engage in open world PvP combat by enabling or disabling your PvP flag.
If you chose to create your character on a PvP realm, Game Masters will not address situations where you are repeatedly killed by the opposite faction. This includes situations that may be considered dishonorable such as corpse camping or killing players well below your level.
You cannot transfer from a PvE realm to a PvP realm. Transfers from PvP to PvE are permitted. Game Masters do not provide realm transfers.
Very simple. If you don’t want to get camped, don’t flag for PvP.
"All these things were fine in Vanilla but aren’t fine now. "
The meta was different too, champ. Players play differently. Imagine that. So yes, moving the cave is exactly the same.
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Just reminding people coming on for AV weekend of what the biggest source of imbalance is… bump.
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The lack of geared, skilled, not-afk rankers on the alliance side?
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