Seems the only changes that happen are for Horde.
Hence why the graveyard spawn hasn’t been patched yet.
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That change is done in TBC, so wait for TBC. The game was changed in myriad of ways for a myriad of reasons over the years. But what does that have to do with Classic? Absolutely nothing. In fact, it’s the antithesis of the reason Classic was made.
As far as you saying premades were nerfed, I assume you’re talking about removing the number from the bgs in the queue that players used to coordinate queueing into the same number at the same time? I agree that’s a terrble change. It should never have been done and whoever made that decision shouldn’t be in a position to make those calls, because it was the wrong one. It should be reverted.
But I’ll never understand this argument of, “Oh, this change created this problem so now we need another change to fix that change.” And then a change to address that new change. And then yet another as a result of that. And so on and so forth. Do you see where this is going? You should, because the game has gone that route before. And that’s not what Classic is about.
On top of that, do you really think the devs want to open that can of worms? Validating people calling for these kinds of game-changing changes? Can you imagine the chaos? I mean, the forums are chaos now, but it’s largely unjustified chaos. Suddenly there would be endless threads asking and demanding this change and that change, and poor Pandora Blizzard has no one to blame but themselves.
The best things the devs can do is nothing. Well, actually, the best thing they could do is revert the changes they’ve already made. But 2020 Blizzard (or more accurately Activision) are incapable of such humility, so that’s not going to happen. What they can do is stem the bleeding and not succumb to trying to appease a very vocal minority of posters who will complain no matter what. No matter what Blizz does they’ll find something to whine about. But at the very least the devs can hide behind the protection of, ‘This is authentic Vanilla.’ Or ‘This is authentic TBC’ when that comes about. That design philosophy essentially makes them immune to criticism. At least from any logical, rational person.
So really what this boils down to is that it’s a player issue, not a game issue. And I mean that from the perspective that some people will never accept Classic for what it is: a recreation of Vanilla, specifically 1.12. And this is the closest approximation apparently the devs are capable or willing to create. Any further changes deviates from the goal of this project.
Look, the map is what it is. Deal with, try to find a new strategy, or just wait for TBC when these changes take place and suddenly the Alliance will be owning AV and Horde will be making these threads demanding changes to the map. I’ve already accepted when I play Horde in TBC I’m going to get stomped in AV. That’s just the nature of the race meta based on the 2.4.3 version of AV.
In closing let me just say that honestly I don’t even really play Classic. I sit in Cities and I listen to trade chat, general chat, guild chat. I observe. And I’ll put my hand on a Bible and swear I have not heard a single complaint about AV. Not on the Alliance or Horde side. No one talks about it in-game. Not from my experience anyway. So threads like this are just a handful of people bumping over and over and over. It’s not indicative of the actual mentality of the playerbase…which has been true since these forums were first created. Over the years Blizz made the mistake of catering to the whiniest players, and we see where that got them over time. They’d be fools to make that mistake again. So…deal with it. This is the Vanilla AV map, and it’s not changing.
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Very well said. If people want to play the more balanced version of AV, they can just hop to retail.
So if the cave is moved back, this balance change means Shamans should get some form of CC or self peel. Since we’re in the interest of “Balance” after all /S
It’s so easy to say oh well they should revert the changes. They wont, THE DAMAGE HAS BEEN DONE. Which is why we are here asking for changes to a clearly unbalanced map.
I never said we are losing because they nerfed pre-mades.
Your argument is stupid and you should feel bad. It’s too late, changes already took place. If they are balancing stuff they need to do it for both ends.
Kind of simple to accept the changes they did while you win every AV game. Imagine if we had this advantage, and we won every AV game, would you be preaching the same nonsense??
No one talks about AV on alliance side because no one does it, there an average of what 10 games of AV at a time, on launch there was over 80+… I wonder why no one ques it on Alliance side anymore.
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NO ONE IS ASKING FOR THE CAVE TO BE MOVED BACKWARDS…
Why do you people keep saying it. Read what’s written here.
We are asking for the CAVE REZ TO ONLY REZ PLAYERS IF THEY CONTROL NO OTHER GRAVEYARD.
Moving the cave back wouldn’t even do anything, it would make FWGY the new IBGY.
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OK, so then your response is to then DO MORE DAMAGE? No.
Revert the change and allow the rankers to come back, and every week will be like AV weekend again where alliance start to win abit more and when the premades DO happen in full swing, then the win rate will look like near the beginning of classic.
So no. You acknowledge that the change broke the game. It’s very selfish to then ask to break the game further just as a form of “revenge” or something.
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It requires both of things to succeed. Either the entire horde team needs to have a collective brain fart or else the alliance team needs be massively better than the horde team.
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Is that how it worked back in Vanilla? If yes, then sure. If no, then no.
Must be really hard to advocate for no changes when changes already happened that specifically benefit your faction.
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I think this sums it up nicely.
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Except I’ve never advocated for any changes regardless of faction benefit. I’ve pretty much been consistent in arguing against any change.
But speaking of changes, did you know that from patches 1.5-1.12, Blizzard kept changing AV that ultimately led to Alliance having a 90% win rate? Durrr Alliance bias!!
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1st alliance never had 90% winrates
2nd people didnt know how to play back then, if you went to say a professional street fighter tourney and told them the worst fighter is stupidly OP because your 5 year old nephew beats your 3 year old niece with him, you would be laughed out of the venue. Same thing applies here.
3rd ALL version of AV from 1.5 to 2.3 before they fixed the cave location give horde a massive advantage.
4th you are a troll.
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Who is advocating for changes that have already been made? We’re all agreeing they’re bad and should be reverted. You’re employing a strawman argument. Then you use the slippery slope as a justification for doing even more changes.
This is the epitome of how to screw up Classic.
Yes they did. Just like how Horde has 99% win rate right now lol.
You are aware that private servers exist right? They kept the meta game going. The ONLY difference that changed between Classic and Vanilla/private servers was the faction balance. Even on AV weekends right now, some of the games I’ve been in become base races. So yes, the strategy that worked back then is still comparable to now. Learn to play
No they didn’t.
Using Vanilla as a reference for win rates is trash anyway, really dumb argument which seems to be the only thing you’re bringing.
Did you even play Vanilla?? It was a race back then, no where near what it is now.
Alliance would go right at Balinda and horde would go left. Alliance would then run to Galv and kill him while horde took SHGY and killed Balinda.
This version of AV in vanilla was really no PvP aside from people sniping people in FOS.
It also doesn’t matter what you advocate for now, if you advocated for no changes it’s too late, changes already happened.
You should now be advocating for them to FINISH balancing the map.
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Omg…
You are really dense. If you say no changes and NO CHANGES happened, fine. We are all for that.
You say no changes and changes HAPPEN, like THEY DID, your no changes is out the window. But I guess since it won’t be reverted because it’s blizzard you’re still a no changes guy…About the dumbest argument I heard.
No changes!!
Changes happens that nerfs Alliance in AV!!
OK BUT NO MORE CHANGES NOW!!
LOLOLOLOL.
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Is it bad that I saw 48 minute queues today and was really excited about it? Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to play. But if the cave rez would get me to 48 minute queues normally and maybe like 20-30 minute queues on AV weekend, I honestly don’t know who would hate on this.
Of course it’s relevant to the discussion. We’re trying to pinpoint the reason why Alliance lose, and it has nothing to do with the map but moreso the player base.
Players from Vanilla were able to win “but… but that was just because the’re bad!”
Players from private servers were able to win “but…maybe they didnt have the right values!!”
Players from early classic was able to win “we were able to premade! but please change the map and not revert this change!”
Asia and Oceanic servers have a rough 50-50 win rate. Funny that
It’s a very much of a “learn to play” issue.
No they aren’t.
Those guys complain on here too every now and then.
Sorry but there is nothing you can say to do that would make even 40 alliance getting to IBGY beat an IBGY defense.
40 players have to beat 10 waves of rez’s of 20.
If I asked you without knowing it’s wow who would hold this objective.
Army 1 rez’s 20 at a time 20 seconds away.
Army 2 rez’s 10 at a time 50 seconds away.
Which army will always win that objective??
You can’t debate this. If alliance in classic was truly this bad the other 2 Bgs wouldn’t be 50/50.
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The horde have to do this too at pretty much every objective.
Play the game like how Alliance played it. Use your own choke points to stall the horde (bridge/SPGY/AS) while your offense team takes objectives. Split as required