Ftfy. Premades had next to no requirements, if you weren’t in them it’s because you were afk.
Yeah, don’t misquote me. You lose all credibility when you do that.
So you’re going to get caught up on the number of helmets instead of addressing the actual point. That the top tier premades were winning in 7 minutes, consistently…over and over. And that even though they may have been the minority of premade teams, the rate at which they plowed through games of AV resulted in them being the majority of games that the Horde saw.
Now speaking of a lie, that one is a doozy. But instead of actually adding anything to the conversation, all you have done is nit-pick the number of helmets in a game, call me a lie and then insult me. Goodjob.
We were having a decent conversation until the “lol horde bias” people decided to troll their way through. Oh well, it was good while it lasted.
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You’re absolutely right, it almost like I was talking about something completely and wholly unrelated to spawning. If you decided to keep reading the conversation though, you will see that I actually want to force people to spawn at the grave-yard and not at the cave.
I cannot fathom how a large portion of a team not playing could be anything but the most blatant issue right now.
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Eh, I follow the principle of “Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.” Sure, there’s some evidence that each faction has advantages and maybe some of those advantages are worth more overall for one faction than the other. It’s obviously highly-debatable.
However, I don’t think that Blizzard purposefully made one faction better than the other. It’s just a consequence of an asymmetric game.
The end result is a real imbalance and that’s what should be addressed through balancing and changing the game. If you want asymmetry then you have to recognize that balance will need to be a living thing, the likelihood of getting it perfectly right the first time is nearly nil.
Look at Vanilla, there were dozens of patches that made lots of little balance changes. However, in Classic people stuck to the idea of “NO CHANGES”, which ruined the balancing process. So now we’re at the point of extreme imbalance. It’s just a natural consequence of not making small changes to stave off the larger imbalance swings.
So no, “lol horde bias” is not a good conversation to be had. However, we should acknowledge that the asymmetry between the factions does have a real effect and there needs to be adjustments to correct for that. Rather than turning it into an emotional process we should use logic and testing to find good answers.
That was just one example. Player perception cannot fix everything that’s broken.
It’s the product of the most blatant issues.
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Wow, grats to them for winning 3 games.
I have not lost 4 times since the patch, thats being in AV or in Queue pretty much all day, every day.
The reality is, all the best Alliance players are in WSG premades, or have ranked out, or have hit Exalted and quit.
We farm the hell out of you, because actual Horde pvpers are still stuck in there when they cannot play WSG.
I am of the mind its really hard to tell what is actually broken if players arn’t participating. Its like saying chess is completely unfair if one side completely refuses to move anything but pawns.
I know its not a perfect example, but perhaps there are real issues that need to be addressed…but we need to get people actually participating first to see what they really are.
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AV is the BG to avoid regardless of faction.
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I don’t know if you took it the wrong way, but i wanted to say that we were having a good conversation and then the “lol horde bias” folk showed up. I was just lamenting that with you.
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Oh no, I totally got that and I agree.
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It’s a complete joke that horde get to the north side ramp of SF before the allies do. Move the cave
But, non-participation is the product of clear and obvious issues - issues that were already seen, known, recognized, debated, before non-participation became this big of issue.
The cave was always a problem. Still a problem with afk leeches.
The backdoor, problem before. Still a problem with afk leeches.
The Vann glitch so he doesn’t reset, problem before. Still a problem with afk leeches.
You get the idea.
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I think we’re just gonna have to agree to disagree at this point. I understand where you’re from, and i don’t think it is unreasonable. But I think it is a chicken/egg situation, where those things became problems because people started to leech more instead of the other-way-around.
I guess so, because that is not the view from where I’ve been sitting. Well, not sitting. I was actually playing. 
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There are no Statistsic to show otherwise. It has been almost a month now since the change in the queues, and alliance is losing still in the very same stupid way.
It is not the fault of the fix, it is the lack of organization in alliance and the zerg mindset coupled with the expectation of a fast game, plus the portion of people who are in it for Honor per Hour (min/maxers?)
Does any of this makes sense? if not I can elaborate 
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Very few players are afk or not participating. That’s not the problem. I played AV from 9am-11pm yesterday with 1 win. The total number of people afk I could count on 2 hands.
It was pretty obvious the map layout and tower/bunker design were the biggest determining factors. 2nd to that were players leaving the round, most after 40 minutes, but some earlier. Their replacements coming in at our cave, 2x as far from the front line as horde. So when people do leave the BG it results in a far more negative consequence for Alliance due to the map layout.
That said I enjoyed AV even losing, the front line battles were good. But I’m not trying to rank/honor farm. Just grinding rep and we still got a ton in the long rounds, and a typically a good amount of bonus honor. Obviously winning is better, but I also have the human rep bonus on my pally.
Literally no one on alliance has expectations of a quick game.
That lasted for two days after AV launched, then the horde turtled up. Everyone who plays AV does so going in the knowledge that the quick game days have been over for a very long time.
It’s been done to death on these threads. There is an obvious design flaw in the map.
There are 
zero:clap: differences between the types of player playing each faction.
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Perhaps you’re not looking hard enough, but from my point of view…it is not uncommon to see at least 10 or more actively hiding in remote locations, just standing in the graveyard, “defending inside the mines” etc.
They’re not AFK, they’re quite literally at their keyboard…just actively not participating.
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