I would wager that if the devs simply announced a hotfix to av to help make allies win rate higher (and don’t actually do anything) ally win rate would go up, purely from the morale boost it would give them.
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The actual root cause is OP no skill pvp racials which attracted a large majority of pvpers to roll horde. The pops are balanced but the pop that actively PvPs heavily favours horde.
This lead to every problem that currently exists in wow. Dead pvp servers, extremely long horde AV queues, alliance premades which bliz fixed but the result of the fix is a 99% alliance lose rate which further leads to longer and longer AV queues
It all comes back to racials
I play on US servers. I played all day yesterday. Had 1 win. Now I did play to exalted on my hunter the 1st week of release, got exalted quickly with mostly 7-10min wins. This time I was on my pally. It wasn’t all bad despite the losses.
Now after playing on my pally this past Sunday I have a few observations from the US battlegroup.
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There were almost no AFKers. Most of the team was with the group in most of the rounds with a few going back to stop the back door exploit and small grps getting Lts and tower archers.
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In several of the rounds we actually trounced horde in HKs, but still lost.
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We got 2.5-3.5k bonus honor in most rounds.
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We got 1-2k rep in most rounds.
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The map imbalance was super obvious. Despite many rounds where by the numbers Alliance was outperforming horde in first 20-40 mins by a wide margin, we still lost. SH is terrible design, as are our defense bunkers, the 1st of which horde gets to before alliance would even have a chance to defend it.
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In relation to point 5, after the first 20-40 minutes people would start leaving the BG. This often resulted in the tide changing and SH being lost. This was a far bigger issue than “AFKers” sitting the cave or anywhere else. If you lose a player at SH, and their replacement spawns in the cave it’s nearly 2x as far for the alliance replacement to get back to the battle vs. if a horde player leaves.
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The stun resist for Orcs is super OP.
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The Forsaken not being classified as undead and subject to exorcism is horsesh**. And has been for 15yrs.
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The differences in the tower layouts doesn’t seem to be brought up much, but the Horde have it super easy with their towers. They are so easy to defend/re-cap as there is no LoS around the flag and all they have to do is bring 2-3x mages and arcane explosion to take them back. This is a HUGE imbalance.
Overall it wasn’t so bad, but the map, tower layouts, and racials where definitely far bigger determiners in the outcome than HKs or coordination.
I also played WSG in the 50s bracket most of last week. The horde there did not at all excel at PvP, despite that being the “pvp” BG, and unless all the horde suddenly become good at 60 (unlikely) the “horde are superior at PvP” or co-ordinate better mentality is complete BS.
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I still have not lost since the ‘fix’ - probably at least 40 AVs straight. A couple lately have been more competitive for sure, but once we plug up near IWB, it becomes inevitable.
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Have your queues reached 2 hours yet?
There really isn’t a fix for AV. Ironically the only real fix was to leave the queue system the way it was in hopes that enough horde have a bad enough experience to reroll.
Currently the best HpH for alliance in AV is to rush all the lts and afk out. A lot of this has to do with how big of an advantage horde gets in 30 minute games and how the meta cannot shift as long as all the pvpers are stacked on one faction as there is no incentive for horde to play shorter games.
Theres no real fix for this. If you only give honor upon completion all the better ally players who still play AV will not any longer. Horde queues get worse, ally lose harder. The thing that really needs to happen is a system where pve players do not have access to the rewards.
Premades, while in the short term sucked, would’ve fixed a lot of the problems with pvp in the long run. As it stands now I doubt we’ll have pvp once everyone completes all their rep grinds.
There is so much of your post that is accurate but this is what I want to emphasize. I have been playing 50-59 WSG since I was 55. The games are competitive. The horde DO NOT suddenly upon getting to level 60 becomes gods of PVP. Do the racials help them? Yes I think that in individual situations they do. The truth is the design of AV was most likely only balanced at 1.5.
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The back door definitely needs to be fixed - BUT - they aren’t having the losses there like we are here.
I still have yet to see an NA game where we’ve used this. Occasionally I see a rogue or druid go up there to ninja a tower but they die. That still doesn’t change the fact that it needs to go. Same with being about to reset warmasters/generals. Total BS.
The Russian premade one seems to be bickering that they’re easily beaten, so who knows what’s actually happening there. By and large though, EU aren’t filling the forums with nearly as many complaints, and, they don’t agree that the horde cave is the reason for the losses (Cause it isn’t).
This doesn’t change the fact that horde can get more reinforcements in place faster than alliance can (cave to ibgy). At all.
No matter how many times you say this, it has zero impact on fixing the most blatant issues.
It’s not significant enough to cause a nearly 100% win rate for Horde.
Show of hands who wants a better (earlier) version of AV instead of tons of “fixes” that will probably just break something else?
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I feel racials are an issue here, But this can’t be the only issue. Horde racials are far more favorable in pvp standards.
Again not sure the last time you’ve queued since you argue that the Horde ignores SF, but I get most of my honor protecting the back door entrance and there is always 3-7 players climbing it with ease.
That wasn’t your argument though.
That was.
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Hmmm interesting. Looks like this is actually becoming a discussion after all.
https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/the-horde-cave-numbers/128775
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No - typically 1hr 5 mins - 1hr 14 mins. I just plan accordingly to farm or do sh*t around the house till queue pops.
By complaints I mean - they aren’t saying they’re losing as much. Many of the threads are saying they’re winning plenty they’re just pissed about the back door strat and now I guess russian horde.
Mind linking some? I don’t get that vibe at all when scrolling through the AV threads.
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Horde will say anything to attempt to prolong their absurd winrate. Lol.
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I mean, you can go look yourself. There’s one linked in another thread I’m replying to as well.
I would agree with the horde cave being moved if it was necessary. Just like I agree that we need the back door exploit ended. Just like I agree with the warmasters/generals being reset is totally bogus.
BUT - the horde cave just allows Ally to zerg/PVE game. That’s all it will solve. Since that’s not the point of the BG it needs to stay where it is. I’m not sure how ally don’t know this? In vanilla you guys crushed horde all the way to 2.3, then from 2.4 to present you’re the dominant faction.
This isn’t hard.
For the record I’m not advocating for any specific changes, that wasn’t my point. My point was that making this sound like an “NA ONLY problem” is not accurate nor is it contributing to the discussion.
As I said above, I HAVE been and haven’t found any Alliance arguing that they’re “winning plenty” on the EU forums.
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I think it would have some effect but not a dramatic one. People would pretty quickly analyze the supposed changes and either conclude it was total BS or they were so minimal as to not matter.
You’d have to make a change that had enough of an impact that it was noticeable, even if the change really didn’t change anything important. A big visual effect, something showy, that people could mistake for an actual change. That might sway enough to make a lasting difference.
However it could very easily backfire. Probably better off just making a real change.
Not going to happen. You have two negative forces here, long queues for the Horde and high losses for Alliance. They both drive people away so re-rolling is likely to happen on both sides.
At best, people will simply stop doing AV entirely or will leave the game over it. So getting an AV game will take longer and longer, eventually for both sides.