Of the rumors I’ve heard allies GY res 10 people while horde cave res 20…
I can’t confirm or deny this, but it’s one of the “imbalanced map” claims I’ve heard.
IF it’s true then I think they should be made even at reading ALL dead at graveyard /cave. But I doubt it’s true as I have never experienced a time someone didn’t get rezed. Maybe the imbalance of rezes is simply from the fact that 20 people Rez on both sides, and the AFK leeches never rejoin the fight so it FEELS like less allies rezed? After all the leech will want at least 1 death to reduce suspicious on them.
I will say about 95% of alliance are still stuck in the “Rush IBGY” mentality and for some odd reason just wont learn from their mistakes. The horde will defend with 30+ people, they arent in a rush. Those 20-25 people will get wiped through attrition because we know once you kill them they will be right back in the fight in no time. Cave being 100 yards away is such a big advantage it’s not even funny.
I need conformation that horde in fact do spawn 20 instead of 10 like alliance. If that so, i mean how can any of you horde even come on here and debate otherwise. This will need to be fix ASAP!
But my question is, does the Alliance Cave also spawn 20 people at a time? If yes then there is no imbalance.
If the Horde Cave does and the Alliance cave doe snot then there is an issue.
If the caves are designed to spawn 20 and GY’s 10, then there is no bug here to fix.
But there is a issue in terms of gameplay with Cave Placements. Ya. which can either be addressed by moving Horde Cave to the end of the map, or Moving Alliance Cave near SH.
You are either misunderstanding me or you are twisting words.
I am saying that the claim that horde players are any different than alliance players in terms of innate skill and ability is a spurious claim.
I know the popular line of thought amongst horde players is that they are simply better at WoW than alliance players.
The truth is:
They are exactly, 100% the same players.
The big truth is:
Horde has an overwhelming and undeniable map advantage. All I see here is horde players doing two things:
Desperately attempting to throw mud on the fact that they do have an advantage.
Attempting to act as if their win rates have absolutely everything to do with player skill (pro tip------it’s the map.)
We aren’t petitioning horde players nor asking for their support. We are attempting to bring an issue in the game to light so Blizzard can take a look at it.
Something is clearly going on, and it ain’t that the horde are good.
You were never supposed to be winning AV. At this 1.12 stage of AV, alliance were getting stomped due to map imbalances and the changes to AV from its inception. Alliance mostly abandoned AV altogether until a patch in TBC reformatted Alterac Valley almost wholesale out of neccessity due to it practically dying off when Alliance boycotted it worldwide.
This was the patches that moved the Horde cave back, and added the reinforcements system.
Alterac Valley (Patch 2.3)
Additional Warmasters no longer report for duty upon destroying an enemy tower. However, destroying an enemy tower still eliminates the associated opposing Warmaster.
All Warmasters are linked to each other and their respective Generals and can no longer be pulled individually.
Honor from capturing towers has been increased.
All Commanders and Lieutenants have left Alterac Valley in search for other battle opportunities.
Players will no longer be sent to their starting tunnels on death unless that team controls no graveyards in the battleground.
Many NPCs in Stormpike and Frostwolf holds are no longer elite
Bonus Honor in Alterac Valley is now only awarded during the battle for destroying enemy towers and slaying the enemy Captain. Upon conclusion of the battle, bonus honor is also awarded for intact towers, a surviving Captain, and for victory in the battle. The total bonus honor awarded should be similar to the previous total.
The Horde and Alliance now have a limited number of reinforcements available in the battle for Alterac Valley. The number of reinforcements available is reduced upon player death, loss of towers, and death of Captain Galvangar or Balinda Stonehearth. In addition, all available reinforcements are lost upon the death of General Drek’Thar or Vanndar Stormpike. If a team is reduced to zero reinforcements, the opposing team wins the battle.
Towers and Graveyards in Alterac Valley are now captured in 4 minutes (down from 5).
This was the first patch in TBC that was meant to try and resuscitate AV. It failed however as soon after giving it a shot Alliance continued to boycott it as it was clearly still hilariously lopsided in favor of the Horde. Which sent Blizzard to make its major major change to actually even things a bit:
Alterac Valley: (Patch 2.4.0)
Major buffs have been applied to Warmasters and Marshalls; Warmasters and Marshalls now increase each other’s maximum health and maximum damage by 25%. This is a stacking buff.
The Horde cave has been moved significantly south, so Horde players start very near to the Frostwolf Keep.
Join as Party returns to Alterac Valley. (NOTE: “Join as Party” does NOT mean “Join as Group”. Only 5 players can queue at the same time.)
The time required for the first capture of Snowfall graveyard has been reduced from five minutes to four.
This at least brought people back to playing it occasionally. But prior to this it was basically abandoned by the playerbase. So… why does it suck for you today? Because it sucked for alliance in 1.12. Why is it unfair for alliance today? Because it was unfair for alliance in 1.12.
They said warts and all, and they weren’t lying. I imagine they get a bit of smug satisfaction seeing people dislike the clearly unbalanced battleground. “You asked for it” they think to themselves… And theres nothing you can do about it. And if you do find a way around it; they will patch it to return you to your extreme loss rate. They have proven this twice already.
“Games that lasted less then 7 minutes were extremely rare.” is patently false. Over 95% of my games, before Blizzard gimped the Alliance’s ability to pre-made, were under 10 min.
After running AV in Vanilla, on Private Servers, and in Classic I think that 3 things would really significantly improve things.
Revert to pre-nerf AV. It makes it slightly less easy to just run on by eachother and speed to the General for the win. You end up with a little more time to turn the tide of battle. The way it is now it seems like the first side to get rolled over at the beginning of the match is sure to lose. There is no real opportunity to recover. I really think the map-imbalance wasn’t quite as obvious before they nerfed AV.
Fix the Alliance “back door”.
Eliminate Cross-Realm Battlegrounds. This would help to slowly and automatically improve faction balance. Players would re-roll faction or transfer to other servers to help even things out. It would definitely upset a lot of people but they should have taken that into consideration when they started rolling new chars on a realm that already had lopsided factions. You would end up with some more pvp focused players on the Alliance side and shorter queues for everyone.
Also to those saying this is only a NA problem it is definitely not. I play on Oceanic servers and have never been in a winning Alliance game. I’ve been in games where there are a handful of AFKers and games where there were 0-1. It didn’t really make much of a difference. This isn’t a regional problem. It may be more prominent in some regions, but it exists everywhere.
This. Let’s be real, Blizzard will never make a physical change to the map for Classic. People saying the cave needs to be moved are just screaming into the void. If the map is the problem and it bothers you there seems to be a simple soultion. Fixing DB back door, physical changes to the map. Moving Horde cave, physical changes to the map. Moving the Alliance cave, physical changes to the map. These things are pipe dreams.
I don’t disagree. They also will not revert to an earlier version of AV. They’ll release AB, implement battleground weekends, AV will only pop reliably once every 3 weekends. Queues otherwise will enter the stratosphere. Then blizzard releases TBC at some point and that’ll be that we’ll get the TBC map.
Until it provides more honor per hour for Alliance to get a slow win in a single AV than lose multiple games rapidly, it will make more sense for Alliance to AFK if they cannot get an instant, quick win.
Or we could…you know…revert to 1.5 AV like 99% of Alliance complaining are asking for. We merely point at the imbalances that exist in 1.12 AV as reason for doing so (since, even if some of those imbalances exist on the 1.5 map, they’re a lot less impactful).
I think we can ALL agree that Alterac Valley is fundamentally flawed and should only exist as a set piece for casual players. Bring on Arathi Basin already.