Yes, PALADINS did, ret wasn’t a useful spec, so you brought a holy paladin or a prot paladin, or both, and now you have all the paladin buffs.
Ret needs to be competitive DPS to be a part of an optimal raid group. If it isn’t a competitive DPS, you don’t bring a ret. They become very easily replaceable while making your raid better by slotting in almost anything else.
You guys are exaggerating big time, ret is bis. Go hate somewhere else.
No one is exaggerating. The reason ret was buffed was because rets were being sat.
Ret without the buffs it got is non viable in an optimized raid group.
Unless you believe you’d take the worst DPS spec by a wide margin to get buffs that your healer already has.
So do you want authentic ICC or do you want altered? There is no middle ground
cry me a river mate, ret is amazing
Now it is. It wasn’t before the buffs.
For a reference point: here’s what Algalon representation looked like pre-buffs
(The percentages were determined by taking total Algalon kills divided by total parses of that spec in Ulduar at that time)
Ret was right around arms warrior in relative (and total) representation. It was FAR from wanted.
Ret was being sat for hard content. It wasn’t a good spec. That’s why it got buffed.
Rets are amazing, don’t believe the warrior propaganda. Oof, in total seriousness, sure for the try hard guilds out there maybe but that’s the top 1% mate. Also logs are not accurate, sims are not accurate, dear lord, ret was good, they are even better now. Wait till ICC , we are god tier.
When Blizzard came out with their stupid “spec prot or holy”-post rets were literally getting shunned from 5 mans.
Rets are kings of 5 mans, buff or not. But player perception is king as you should know. It’s the same reason people don’t run warrior tanks, despite warrior tanks being really good.
Exact recordings of what rets did in the raid are not accurate?
I don’t think you quite understand how advanced combat logging, a requirement for WCL logs, works.
No good sir, tis not.
This is the first time I’ve seen someone claim that the combat logs, that record everything you do, including positioning, are inaccurate.
That’s a wild take.
Now, I can fully agree that parsing rules are occasionally arbitrary, but the logs are pretty much as accurate as you could possibly get.
I don’t agree that combat logs or what ever crap sims you guys use can really indicate that ret was bad before the buff, the buff was fine, ret was fine, the buff just made ret better. But maybe I don’t understand what we’re even arguing about in the first place. Point is the buuufff is fine and guilds benching class/spec for meta perceived narratives is lame.
It wasnt just meta narratives. By every measure… sims, real world damage, number of rets actually being used on difficult fights Algalon…
The spec was struggling to the extreme. There was nothing optimal about it. Using a ret meant you were carrying someone. The spec needed buffs so that wasn’t going to be true.
Uh huh, sure. Being middle of the pack is not all that bad. Beside “Optimized raid groups” => try hards, You guys still had tons of utilities and bubbles and who doesn’t like bubbles?
Ret wasn’t middle of the pack unless your raid was filled with bad players…
It was worse than most PvP specs at DPS.
And no one cares about bubbles 99% of the time. Almost all important raid mechanics ignore immunities, and any other use of bubbles on others requires them to be making mistakes in positioning or actions.
And even if bubble is useful… you already have a holy paladin, they’ve got it covered.
No ret utility is good enough to justify being where they were in damage.
Now they are middle of the pack, and they are fine. In icecrown, after getting a legendary, they become one of like 7 top DPS. It seems like the buffs put ret at a very reasonable spot.
Rets were pretty good, with the buff they are one of the best dps spec . Idk what to say. Make love not warcraft?
Rets are middle of the pack dps on most ICC fights being done on ptr.
You just have a different definition of good compared to the rest of the player base.
With the buff they are mid tier. With the buff AND shadowmourne they are one of the best.
I don’t know why people have a problem with that.