no, they dont, but thanks for keeping the thread alive. its 3731 armor.
I understand basic reading comprehension is extremely difficult for you. The sim doesnt even “sim” boss fights, as they all have mechanics and movement. It sims a tank and spank X second fight. Removing buffs doesnt make it a “pvp sim” as that doesnt exist. What it tells, you, however is the dps difference when buffs are present and when they are not. You can than connect two dots and find out that in PVP, you wont have these buffs, and the players will take less damage due to having more armor or mitigation spells, to understand why PVP is so horribly broken.
If a warrior as fury does 2% more dps with buffs, and priest does 300% more dps when buffs are not present, this tells you that in an unbuffed scenario a priest is massively stronger. Whether the target is a random quest mob, a dungeon mob, a raid boss, a pvp target, it doesnt matter, innately youre going to do massively more damage because they balanced dps around world buffs without any considering of non-buffed class states. Then consider that as a priest most of your spells are instant cast or very short, that bubble denies all rage, you have your own armor, inner fire, shadow form, and that you can disperse while dots keep ticcing and its a no-brainer as to why the game is totally unplayable. It also explains why in a dungeon that some classes do way more damage, or WHY IN RAID if you lose world buffs that some classes will do WAY more damage.
You’ll never understand that though. Gotta generate a few more brain cells to rub together.
You couldnt even keep the statements in the right order lmao. Starfire does 10k with a 1.0 sec cast regardless because it ignores armor. Mortal strike on the template with Ashkandi on a 0 armor target does 2,500 damage. A boomkin will has a passive 55%ish percent mitigation and has more armor than a warrior in plate. So, if a boomkin can out dps an Arms warrior with only starfall passively ticcing on a target that has 0 armor, how do you think Arms compares when the target actually HAS armor? And then think 75 rage and 7.5 seconds best case scenario to apply 5x sunder which wont even be 100% armor pen and you can see why a warrior out the gate is totally obsolete. Actually, you probably can’t, because you are clueless.
you connected the dots by simming a pvp encounter, what would happen if the priest got interupted on his cast? oh? not 300% then? oh well
you only have 1 dot if you have dispersion, unless for some reason you have devouring plague, putting up an swp and dispersion is how noobs think shadow priest plays, you would do like 500 dmg during your dispersion. Dispersion is basically a team fight only ability, in a 1v1 you have to use void plague or you will never kill anyone who isn’t completely braindamaged
you didn’t even remove the void plague on your pvp sim did you
Yes I can often beat Shadow Priests, Mages(the most fun 1v1 matchup in SOD), and non-tank Warlocks. But you’re gonna get absolutely rolled by almost everyone else with equal gear that doesn’t completely suck… especially Paladins, Rogues, and Boomkins.
you take 20 seconds to kill a priest that isnt fighting back and is a healer, and then there are two shadow priests that look like bots, have barely 3k hp even in a battleground, and are backpeddling as they cast at 10 CPM. Meanwhile you have a 90% crit rate (buffs hidden?) and a healer. Why bother posting the link lmao?
If a shadowpriest or a boomkin came up with your gear and effort and a healer you’d be deleted in a few seconds.
I don’t know… sure I won’t say no to an arms warrior buff but I also think most warriors just suck at the game. I’ve only encountered a few that were decent.
I’m frequently top killing blows by a large margin and killing dudes 1vs2+ left and right.
I’ve got lots of videos showing what arms warrior is capable of.
Part of the problem is warriors are running around in Pve gear and fury spec. But the PvP gear and high stamina is everything. I will 3-4 shot the Pve warriors, they’re one of the squishiest players you can encounter in PvP.
Someone earlier in this thread said that 2H fury is better than arms in PvP. This is so not accurate.
Its hard when you cite videos of players that have the HP of a fresh 60 and are visibly backpeddling while having a cast rate of once every 6 seconds. 20 seconds to kill the healer when most classes could obliterate it in 3 to 6 is not good. With BiS gear on PTR on a 0 armor target MS crits for 2,500 while the ptr boomkin starfires in 1.0 sec for 10,000 damage. Starsurge crits harder than MS with a 6 sec cd, no mana cost, and long range. Their dots do more than most of your specials. Starfall by itself will outdps a full arms rotation. I spent less ptr time on priest but they do way more damage than a arms warrior.
Spriest will do significantly more damage than you if theyre properly geared, specced, and not a bot. Arms does way less dmg than fury and a priest can do 300% fury dmg outside of raid, and if you were to assume the priest would lose half its damage by going pvp spec/gear its still doing far more damage. SW:D is like 4 mortal strikes in a fair situation.
Showing me a video where you crit 90% of your attacks on players with less than 3,000 hp is nowhere near normal conditions. If we had some streamer dual tournament right now warrior would be dead last by a large margin. Not that dualing per se is the most important pvp mode but it wouldnt even be close. You do less damage than everyone else as both specs objectively, and you have less utility and survivability than about anyone else.
Doesn’t mean you can’t squash bots in a random battleground in BiS gear. But you’ll get annihilated by anyone else that puts even half your effort into the game.
I have a fairly hard time with warriors because you can’t realistically kite them and its pretty hard to cast vs them and your instants are dots and death, death will give him rage and also break your own shield and deal 50% damage back to you, fear trades global and you have no sustain in bgs because ve is based off of your damage done (reduced by 40% then that heal is reduced by whatever the healing debuff is in bgs and then that number is cut in half by the mortal).
Spriest strength is spam dispelling people/free casting mind spikes into mind blast crits + death, its hard to make a situation with a warrior sitting on you work out in your favour, its just really hard to get any damage out unless they miss an interupt, all damage you deal except death and swp is a cast
Its definitely winnable as spriest, lip is a better dispersion, tidal can allow you to cast some spells, you can play without dispersion and use void plague, any blackout stuns can allow you to do things too, if you are a troll with fear ward you can also racial yourself for stuns+ intimidating shout will do nothing and also cut some of his self healing with your hex
This 300% thing the op is on is some high fantasy stuff, lets say the warrior has 9k hp, you would have to deal 9k to him before he deals 3 to you, to out damage him by 300%, i have genuinely no clue how u would do that and neither does he, he clicked off all his buffs in the sim, left the mob he’s hitting with 3731 armor and level 63, saw a warrior does 1/3rd of a priest’s damage and that’s how he got his 300%
I don’t think you actually PvP. If you did you wouldn’t be complaining this much.
As an arms warrior shadow priests 1vs1 are among the least of our worries.
If you want to learn / see what arms warrior is capable of watch some more of my vids. They cant all be bots, and it’s a much better testament to what actual PvP looks like than pveing a ptr target dummy.
I dunno we bring like 3 arms warriors in our AB premades and they seem to slap pretty hard, they arent amazing 1v1 sure but throw them in a big fight with wildstrikes and freedom and watch em go
You could also just bring rogues, ret palas, and hunters instead for better results. Every class benefits from having a healer, the damage gap is too large. If I have to live long enough to get 4-5 rotations of abilities off to match up to the damage of one cycle from any of the “good” classes, they could also just have a healer and everyone laughs at the warrior thinking it’s a people.
The big difference with warriors benefiting from a healer NORMALLY, is that our damage is still competitive or better (with sword spec/hoj/wf rng and crits) than other classes, we have no survivability (other than armor and hp) on our own to counteract this. Our damage isn’t competitive, so why even slot a warrior?
Eh in those game long brawls at farm once weve locked down the big 3 farm/bs/lm (like really just ignore gm and go for these 3 every game horde doesnt know how to react once theyve lost mapvantage) warriors really shine, but agree they need alot more support to do so, people really sleep on MS though, its huge when we are hunting their healers
As to specific reasons why, deathgripping a disc priest so your ret/arms warrior/feral combo cam delete them is huge, warriors when they have tremor+wildstrikes+freedom are absolute bulldogs+ MS cannot be overstated for protracted teamfights+slows omg the slows are force multipliers that everyone sleeps on arms warriors are absolutely huge when used properly
warriors have always shined in fights where a healer keeps them running long past other classes running out of resources. the problem right now is those resources are better invested elsewhere.
yeah grip/slow is nice, too bad the hook makes the target stun immune until the spell effect wears off (roughly 2-3 seconds). ms is definitely overvalued given how much damage some classes have. rogue applying buffed seb is more than enough for your melee train to delete pretty much anything, and the rogue still provides a ton of utility on top of their damage.
all that investment of wildstrikes/freedom/tremor is better on ret or rogue, by far. or in the case of freedom, peeling your own backline.
the only advantage to warrior slow is that they can just spam piercing howl and slow everything in 10 yards. but hunters are such a strong class that you’d be better off slotting an extra hunter for extra slow trap coverage.
Ultimately you only wanted 1 warrior in an ideal prem setup before, you still only want 1 now. The difference is that before they were great for their damage and pressure on kill targets with MS, now we’ve been semi-relegated to supplying utility and MS because we don’t have the damage even with WF to pressure anybody. Hook is great in a prem environment, even better because the other damage classes do so much more damage than they really should. Unfortunately it’s at the cost of warrior being allowed to threaten any class that isn’t mage, or spriest.
Eh rogues have no staying power in fights though because of their leather, way to easy to just delete and arms cam definitely put out some nasty burst(not like ret paladin bc of twisting but still) id take ret feral warrior priest over ret feral rogue priest any day(or double ret in that comp for that matter) since the rogues just going to fall over the second he gets out of stealth and stunned out of evasion definitely nice to have one rogue to snipe/guard flags though but definitely not very good in team fights imo as for peeling back line at worst you have a rogue which you just grip/hoj and delete and if its multiple melee just bop the priest walk up and delete(agreed with you ret is also great value but ret also benefits quite a bit from having an arms warrior around to cover its lack of mobility and soft cc)
Depends on the fight, if you’re just clashing over an obj in AB sure, rogues can have issues getting anything done. If you’re talking about in WSG going after a flag you absolutely want a rogue in the fight bouncing between interrupting with gouge/blind/vanish sap/kicks and pressuring FC with their damage.
AB fights are specifically played around the deathmatch aspect so forcing someone into a worse position with grip and slapping an MS debuff on them is huge, whereas WSG fights are about the flag so more precision is required, shutting down the backline who don’t have the globals to just shove damage and healing at a target because they have to balance peeling on top of everything else.
Again, warriors are fine in the sense of you should bring one. It’s just arguably worse in most situations than it was before, in exchange for being better at deathmatching assuming the supporting cast can keep them going long.
I just want warrior to not be so totally reliant on other classes to perform. Like now not only do we need a healer but we need a feral or shaman dropping WF to help us keep up as well. We’ve gone too far.
I clicked around a bit, the numbers are pretty bad. Youre tryharding in a mode that no one takes seriously anymore because its such a joke balancewise. If you played any other class you’d be doing way more dmg and surviving more. Its that simple. The math is the math. Mortal strike does very low damage for its investment. In a normal armored target it does half the dmg of a starsurge which is free, instant, and 36 yards for the same cooldown. Chimera shot will do 3-5x its dmg based on the target and can be double tapped back to back.
You chose to send a link to a video where you take 20 seconds to kill a healing priest that isnt fighting back or even casting as much as it should. Put the effort you put into warrior on any other class it that player wouldnt last 6 seconds. When I’ve done battlegrounds most players are fresh, trying out the mode, click their bars and keyboard turn, etc. Its not a problem dealing with that. But the moment you face anyone of a different class with an iota of effort goodbye, because you cant change the math.
When I compare apples to apples on the ptr, the damage of Arms is really bad. And we can even look at logs to see its below tanks and even mage healer in some cases. It needed a flat 50% boost to overall damage to catch a Ret paladin at the end of molten core. Its not much different now.
you have no clue about anything. You can’t follow a discussion and constantly change your position or just restate a debunked one. The point was fury, which does a lot more dmg than arms, will do 1/3rd a priests dmg on a target when both dont world buffs or other class buffs. Its just the math, dont agree? Take it up with the dev team that uses the sims and the sim makers that coded it. Which means when you enter a dungeon, or quest, as a priest, do are doing 300% more dmg. Now, due to rng, maybe its 330%, maybe its 250% that pull, but the average on the sim is 300% more dmg. If you want to change the rules and then pvp fight with pvp gear and runes on and argue you wont do 300% more dmg anymore, what is it? 250% more dmg? Does the warrior not to get to change its runes to also do less dps? Youre not able to reach logical conclusions or discuss normal comparisons. Its a well known fact that warrior is overly reliant on raid and world buffs to compete and that they never gave warriors tools to reliably sunder targets in a seasonal game mode where players die in 3 seconds.
