Arms War is still less than half a player in PVP and PVE

WoW Classic Season of Discovery
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Still no updates since Zirene said they’re dropping support for the Arms tree. Warrior has no way to reliably apply armor pen quickly (but rogue and priest can lol) so best cast scenario it takes 7.5 seconds and 75 rage to apply sunders in a game where boomkin can instantly starsurge you for 3x the dmg of a mortal strike, which stuns you, then 1.0 second cast starfire (if they have zg stuff) and do 4k dmg and global you. Chimera shot routingly hits 4x or 5x harder than a Mortal Strike.

On PTR, I made a BiS warrior and boomkin. Not only can starfall, literally by itself, do more DPS during its duration than an Arms warrior can do with its entire rotation, but it does around double dps with only instant spells. Triple if you start casting things with a cast timer. Was dropping 10k 1.0 sec starfires on the dummy when the Arms warrior with Ashkandi was doing 2.5k mortal strike… when it had ZERO armor. Tested hamstring on various targets to confirm no armor. So what do you expect a warrior to do with the boomkin has more armor than it? Boomkin is doing like 6x or more the dps easily in normal PVP.

It’s crazy it got this bad. I get it - the devs are understaffed and underfunded but lets get these folks some calculators and a basic spreadsheet on how armor and attack tables work.

Whats the fix? Make Mortal Strike do actual damage. Give warriors a heroic throw with a CD like shadow word death that applies 5 sunders and does weapon damage. Make it so MS and OP can interact with each other to do bonus blood/bleed damage that ignores armor. Make rend do actual damage (with the chest rune it does like 1/10th what a moonfire dot does). Arms shouldnt be doing less damage than all the tanks and healers in raid. It should be around what a ret can do, at least, because ret has way more survivability and utilitly. Arms should be a fine spec for dungeons, pvp, open world, etc and be a little bit better than fury normally but then in raid fury is a little bit better with all the ramping and stacking buffs.

You shouldnt just drop the spec. We have 2h melee hunters! dual wield melee hunter, and then 3 talent trees, ranged hunter, etc. We have 3 rogue talent trees with S tier PVE and S tier PVP options on pretty much all of them AND they can tank. We have healing mages and tank locks. Why on earth do warriors lose an ENTIRE talent tree!? How.

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Isnt fury at the top?

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Do you read?

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Dude has posted multiples of the same thread. Once one dies he starts up another.

Pvp is abit rough, but glad stance wars are tearing up.

There are viable specs for war to play already. Not every spec can be as viable as the other. Someone has to be at the bottom.

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Depends what you look at. If you look at all bosses top percentile fury is #1.

If you go boss by boss it’s not as great as it first seems.

For mythic:
4th razor, 2nd vael, 6th brood, 1st firemaw, 1st ebon/flame, 11th chrom, 5th on nef.

The results get worse for fury on lower difficulties.
3rd razor, 1st vael, 8th brood, 3rd firemaw, 2nd ebon/flame, 10th chrom, 8th on nef.
Though again if you look at overall ranks fury still comes out ahead.

I’m going to assume that’s because overall is including Vael which is going to be egregiously in favor of warrior due to infinite rage during a long execute phase and further synergy with Burning Adrenaline stacking with our cooldowns. Though we’re also benefiting on Firemaw from not having to move out and also getting extra rage to spend during execute thanks to all the aoe damage, and of course doing well on the 2 target cleave boss.

Unfortunately this post is about Arms which was quite literally stated by Zirene to not be a spec they would be supporting going forward. It’s not really even PvP viable at this point outside of providing Mortal Strike for someone else to kill.

Arms is not only not viable, it’s not being supported. It’s issues are not going to be resolved in any capacity in any form of content. That’s the problem. Glad stance is Prot PvP but you still get mauled by rogues because it has a 30% armor reduction and we still don’t have any help with our terrible self-sustain.

There’s plenty of easy fixes they could do for Arms, even ripping Colossus Smash from Cata would be an easy option to help them with some armor pen that it desperately needs to deal threatening damage. But they won’t even do that, while rogues for example currently have 3 viable melee dps specs between muti, backstab, and saber slash, as well as a tank spec. Oh, and rogue is as gross as ever in PvP thanks to backstab being the lowest skilled version of rogue we’ve ever seen… and we had shadowlands 1 button castsequence rogues killing people in a stunlock.

If you don’t see the problem with that idk what else to type to help you.

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Big difference between making Arms at complete parity with Fury and making it at least do a respectable amount of damage more than tanks. Last I saw it was barely above most tank specs and even then one was above (rogue IIRC).

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Arms for overall is currently beating every tank spec except tank shamans. So atleast it looks good at first glance right?

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Ah I was reading off an older graph where tank rogue was above.

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I’d be fine with Arms staying dogwater in PvE if it was good in PvP but its not, its very mid with low damage and no survivability.

What it really needs most is armor penetration, buffed Mortal Strike damage, and Enraged Regeneration % buff with a lower CD without doing a full re-evaluation of the spec.

Its funny how not even the 4pc Draconic set bonus affects Mortal Strike when it increases Heroic Strike, Overpower, and Slam’s damage all by 25%. If it worked on Mortal Strike you might actually see some warriors taking 4pc Draconic for PvP along with 4pc Rank 13 gear(the ones with all the Stamina like the Helm, Legs, Chest, and Legs). Right now nobody takes draconic for anything.

Being forced into Prot/Glad for PvP is just stupid.

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Pretty much where I’m at. Arms is cheeks in PvE and that’s expected. Just maybe make us less cheeks in PvP.

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Buff arms warriors!

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I mean, I feel like chromag doesnt count. Are we talking Arms spec for PvE dps only? Because I don’t think thats the point of the spec. 2H fury is slapping right now. Arms in pvp I do not think needs anything. I think other classes need to be tuned down immensely.

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Arms warrior in PvP would greatly benefit from a source of armor pen, like colossus smash, instead of being stuck with BRE for the rest of SoD. Or alternatively, sustain outside of VR/Enraged Regen.

Arms largely feels like they tested a bunch of stuff on warrior, decided it felt good, then added everyone elses new stuff and never considered the implications of everyone elses new toys.

Which is why for some reason every decent class match-up we used to have is actually heavily stacked against us now except for mages who also got the short end of the PvP stick and get to be our punching bags for once.

I’d feel bad for them but I’ve been putting up with their BS class design for over a decade now so they can pound sand for a year or two as far as I’m concerned.

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I agree, I pick mages out of a crowd nowadays. Unfortunately though, most other classes 1v1, their damage has gotten too high even for our currently level of sustain.

I think we need some type of passive ignore pain. The more rage we have the more % of damage reduction we have. Idk. I dont want to have to not use abilities to maintain high damage reduction either.

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Yeah we don’t have the rage for that. Unfortunately that is, because ignore pain is sick.

They designed damage around raid boss encounters and trying to make specs compete with fury without understanding why fury does good dps, which is cooldown stacking on short fights. So now you have a bunch of specs designed around fury-level damage all the time, because they don’t have cooldowns to stack, and that kind of damage is meant for targets with 1m+ hp, not 4k. That’s why we have % hp, 40% magic dr, and 30% physical dr, and it still feels out of whack.

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That is probably the best explanation I have heard for how Blizzard screwed up their own game.

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The old design had problems but they really just slapped new stuff in with no real regard for what the old stuff was already doing.

Like nobody looks at fury on wcl from 2019 and thinks that spec should have more % sources of anything lmao. Surely we can all agree on that right?

And yet here we are, going into P4 they had to rework all our runes because it was all % scaling stuff, we’re using the same tier set bonus in P5, and probably the rest of the game, because it’s % damage % crit and it synergizes too well with % damage and % attack speed which is why our weapons got nerfed.

It’s cooked.

They should have introduced new abilities, ret desperately needed other buttons to press than judgement, like crusader strike, and then tuned the output to be in line with the rest of the game.

You can’t have a spec like ret that can rando nuke people from auto attacks and seal damage and then leave all that damage in the kit while giving them more damage from actual buttons to press. They were successful in PvP without it, not amazing mind you but perfectly capable of ruining your day.

And they made this mistake on a grand scale and pvp is fried because of it.

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Yea. I have said that for a while. I was fine with new abilities, hitting for classic era damage. Obviously harder with game Bis items. But when other classes were getting hard hitting new abilities in P1 and warriors got… Quick Strike. Red flags.

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They have repeatedly made such stupid mistakes. Shadow priests and Boomkins getting flat damage boosts in phase 3 and warriors getting percent based stuff highlights they dont actually know whats going on besides disliking warriors.

Another example is SW:D and Wrecking Crew would add the same boss dps in a raid environment (when I looked in phase 3) but in PVP SW:D did half a player’s hp or more instantly at range whereas wrecking crew was not even noticeable for a warrior in PVP.

Using sims for BWL, a Spriest with raid buffs and a fury warrior with raid buffs do within 2% of each other’s dps. Without WBs, the shadow priest TRIPLES the warriors DPS. They cant do math.

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arms is giga bad for every single thing in sod right now. but lets face it, you can go 2 handed fury and do the same exact damage as dual wielding fury and it feels way better than arms, just go 2 handed fury.