Arms War is still less than half a player in PVP and PVE

WoW Classic Season of Discovery
21

Well, if we look at WCL, we can find a variety of answers. If you want to look at bosses like Vael in the best raids in world with gimmicks that add rage and such they do pretty well. Especially with world buffs. If you go to a regular boss like broodlord and lower the percentile to 80th percentile warrior is in the bottom half. If you go down to the 15s and 30s where youre at as a player warrior is even worse because it basically revolves around raid kill times (for deathwish uptime) and buffs.

If you look at sims, a phase 5 BiS priest is within 2% of a fury warrior BiS on a fast kill and optimal situation. If you simply remove raid and world buffs, but leave the rest the same, the Spriest TRIPLES the warriors DPS. And thats as fury.

Now if fury remained a ramping raid spec that shined in S tier situations with stacked buffs and fast kill times, thats fine, as long as warrior has some other options to play. As it is, Arms is literally not supported. Glad is also forgotten. So warrior gets 2 specs to play. Rogue gets like, 7. PVE and PVP variants of every tree (3x2) + 1 for the tank spec. Hunters can play 2h melee but Arms can’t lmao.

Warrior is actually really unfun in SoD. Basically the same as classic with a bunch of added ramp stuff. Its F- tier at PVP and open world content as 2h or 1h. As glad prot is can be D tier in PVP. It has a whole talent tree dropped from support. Casters in worse gear than you triple your DPS in open world and PVP content. Chimera shot can be fired back to back, has a 6 sec cd, and no relevant mana cost and does 4-5x the dmg of a mortal strike. Really the forgotten class of SoD. Season of Don’t play warrior.

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Poor warriors, just make a Rogue or Boomie if you want to PvP. My Rogue is 52, hes literally gonna go from 1-60 spamming backstab(with slaughter from the shadows and the backstab rune) in AH greens. Feels good deleting orange mobs in Ungoro that my near BIS Phase 3 Arms warrior sometimes had a rough time with. Once hes 60 I’m actually gonna have to look up some guides because you don’t actually need to know a whole lot about the class(rotations, talents, etc) to level up lol.

I’ll probably always main warrior, but I do like to PvP and I don’t like playing a class that almost never crits above 1000 against equally geared people(unless its a high rage Sudden Death proc) and dies quickly.

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there are not adequate words allowed on this forum to describe how little intelligence an individual would need to make such a ridiculous statement

first, using stats from the top .00001% of players is not relevant data. 95th percentile is the highest bracket that has any relevance. WCL through TBC and WOTLk routinely had to change parse rules because of people cheesing or doing inappropriate things to get a higher number. It is well known that some players will form entire guilds and strategies solely around their parse and as a result the data does not apply to anyone else but that player. On multiple raid bosses at the 80th percentile Shadowpriest does 5-10% more damage than fury. At the 95th priest is still better but by a smaller amount. It makes sense, priest sims within a couple percent of fury warrior.

You spend the overwhelming majority of your gametime not using your world buffs. A shadowpriest doesnt go from being 2% behind to 10% ahead when world buffs are gone. They go to 300% ahead. If you can’t see that this is a problem you are beyond help. Youre like a boomkin in phase 2 crying you can’t literally one shot anyone with a 36 yrd range instant cast 6 sec cd. No brain cells left.

the lowest utility class, lowest survivability class, and lowest dps class outside of raid should be good in raid. Otherwise just delete the class. And in SoD you really shouldnt play a warrior. Several classes are just as good or better in a warrior’s optimal situation and when its not optimal a warrior is less than 1/2 of pretty much any other class. The devs added tons of flat damage to classes that needed scaling/ramping and they added ramping/scaling to warrior that needed flat damage. The result is a totally broken game.

Balancing dps around 60 second world buffed sims without normalizing world buffs or accounting for non-world buff gameplay was a disaster from the start.

25

Well good thing on the 95% warrior is still smoking priest LOL

Truth.

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you didn’t really sim a 3 minute open world encounter target dummy encounter with no buffs did you? you know that priest is a dot class right? so unless something lives like 15 globals, they’ll get reduced effect from their dots, they have the most single target wind up of basically any spec in the game, i also doubt that a priest does 3x your damage even in those cases

edit: lmao i see what you did

you simmed an open world target dummy encounter with no buffs and left the armor the same as a molten core boss, then you clicked off every buff including battle shout and valor of azeroth, the amount of clownery that goes on in these threads is beyond hilarious, anything to prove warrior is underpowered I guess. Stratholme levle 57 ghoul? same armor as ragnaros? see? we are underpowered :joy:

in what game do you play that you spend the overwhelming majority of your time fighting a mob with 4k armor and level ?? boss encounter dodge/parry chance with absolutely no buffs, including none of your own, which lasts 3 minutes, where you don’t sunder? :thinking:

Absolutely useless and pointless simming and lazy too, what exactly is the point of simming a warrior in the actual worse case scenario he could ever be in, completely alone for 3 minutes with no buffs (not even his own) and not pressing sunder at all vs a boss mob target dummy with 4000 armor? what could be the point? oh…to try to prove that the class is underpowered? this would be like me simming a mob on my mage that attacks every 0.1 seconds that causes spell pushback and being like “see? i can’t do any damage”

Its funny that the only way to make the sim show warrior as underpowered is to engineer a situation which has never and will never happen and hope no one checks what you did

27

Why are we talking about Fury in the arms thread?

It got old months ago when you guys only looked at overall + top percentile Fury to claim it’s fine. And for the record, the #1 fury is using a level 40 helmet and relying on unreasonably short kill times to pull top numbers. How short you might be asking yourself? 30s Razor, 55s Broodlord, 44s Firemaw, 54s twin drakes, 1:50 Chrom, Sub 2 minute Nef.

95% of the playerbase will never see kill times that short, let alone on Mythic. But we better balance fury around that.

Arms is trash, 2h Fury is slightly better in PvP currently because BT hits slightly harder and everyone lives long enough for us to actually benefit from having flurry to hit the raid bosses they’ve made players into.

That doesn’t make the 200-500 damage Bloodthirst’s good…

Arms warrior either needs better self-sustain/survivability or it needs to deal damage, pick one and do it. Claiming arms is fine because it puts up MS debuff is braindead too.

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Fury is great a few hours a week so its ok if ARMS is crap at everything come on bro just go Fury stop whining

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you can’t read but you also are willing to tell the world you think a class should be based around how Ahlaundoh builds an entire guild and strat around his parse lol. Not very smart. Super biased.

I used the same sims that the discords and the devs use to find class DPS (Zirene was referencing it) and just removed the buffs. So yeah in PVP and against an open world mob a shadowpriest does 3x the dps a fury warrior using all its cooldowns does. And Arm is half of that.

Its a fundamental problem where balancing around 1 hr of raiding every week and ASSUMING YOU DONT LOSE buffs in a raid where bosses like Vael exist. World Buffs dont benefit classes anywhere near each other. I.e. a bunch of attack speed is there that a caster doesnt get, yet in raid theyre tuned to do within a few percent of your DPS if youre a fury warrior.

You can’t read a chart right in front of your face. You just want to insta kill everyone with SW:D, be unkilalble, and be #1 in every raid encounter. That isnt how to make a game.

Also, the original point was about Arms being dropped from support and unplayable in any portion of the game.

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there’s a reason why they don’t reference sims for level 63 open world encounters with 0 buffs and 4000 armor

no i don’t lmao, i have never asked for shadow priest buffs, this is your 33rd warrior thread asking for buffs, i’d guess thats what you want

too stupid for words, do u think pvp players stand still and let you perform a sim rotation on them? :woman_facepalming: what would happen if a shadow priest got his dots dispelled ? or someone interupted a cast? put that on your sim :skull:

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the fact that you think its okay for open world balance to be where a shadowpriest does over 300% a fury warrior’s damage (which does double an Arms warrior dmg) while also being able to bubble, heal, dispersion, dispel, etc means youre beyond clueless and have nothing of value to add to any game discussion

what roation? you apply dots then hit like 2 buttons lol. Its well known that shadowpriest, boomkin, hunter, and a couple others are grossly overpowered and unbalanced in 99% of the game by massive 2-5x multipliers and then in raid are within a few percent of the best raid dps in world buffed conditions as well. Sure a rogue can prob stun and blow you up if they get close but rogue is among the S tier classes for PVE and PVP.

A boomkin with only starfall (the passive aoe dps) can out dps an Arms warrior single target even on a target with zero armor. A priest’s PVP life is typically apply dots, often proccing a stun, and mindblast/SW:D a target. Your casts are super fast. Same with a boomkin. I could do over 10,000 dmg with starfire on PTR with literally a 1.0 second cast timer. Mortal Strike with Ashkandi crits 0 armor target for 2,500… If something pummeled you in that short window because youre a terrible player that picks terrible times to cast a 1.0 sec spell you can just spam another ability and still be doubling an Arms warrior dps.

Clueless.

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With the -30% physical damage reduction PvP aura in SOD, warriors actually do 30% less damage per hit in SOD than in Era because we didn’t actually get any big shiny new hard hitting abilities in SOD like everyone else did that the PvP damage reduction aura was put in place to help balance out. Sure warriors got a few extra buttons to press like instant Slam and more Overpowers via TFB, but they still do the same damage as before in Era.

When you combine that with the fact that everyone(that is reasonably geared) has around 8-12k HP in BGs(tank specs are pushing 15k along with crazy damage mitigation) along with the low survivability of warriors, it just compounds the problem.

If you want to PvP just play a different class(preferably Druid, Hunter, Rogue, Shaman, or Paladin) because its not gonna get any better for Warrior. If anything, its gonna get worse with AQ40/Naxx gear.

33

Whatever dude.

I think I’ve spent most of my existence spamming Purge.

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the point is, this is a lie, you just left the sim with boss level armor and took off all the warrior buffs, you will never encounter anything in the open world that has such a high level of armor, it would be like a shadow priest simming a boss with 75% shadow res then complaining his damage is low

so no mindflay or mind spike then? the sim you are using casts 3x mindspikes before every mind blast so it can use the tier set mind flay, which is your top damage, surely you knew that right? if you weren’t able to do that, you’d lose most of your damage, this is why you don’t sim pvp encounters…

you don’t even wear the tier set in pvp that is on the sim lol. Trying to outline how worthless simming a pvp encounter to you is hard work. Like I said, beyond lazy, didn’t even check to see what the sim casts

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You are maliciously dishonest AND clueless. Removing sunders from a boss is a 25% damage reduction on the sim by itseld. Mathematically using the in-game armor equation it should be a flat 38% damage reduction from boss armor (so no CoR, bleeds ignore armor, etc). A boomkin passively has around 55% passive mitigation. It can barkskin and not lose dps. A priest won’t have that much but between armor, priest armor buff, shadowform, and bubble canceling rage generation is going to be more than 25%. I also removed buffs from the priest in my hypo-simulation comparison and the priest does 300% warrior damage when the priest ALSO has no buffs.

Youre as clueless as the devs about basic game principles and math. Go sim it yourself and report back.

36

:clown_face: i notice u forgot to respond to this

we’re still simming pvp encounters

hypo simulation comparison = make warriors fight a level 63 boss with 4000 armor and no buffs and see what damage they do and somehow compare that to players in pvp :clown_face:

i can’t tell if you think a warrior swinging at a level 63 and a level 60 are the same thing or not, its hard to tell these days, some players are really really stupid

37

3 buttons instead of 2? I use the same sim the devs use on twitter from the priest discord. You think youre onto something but you aren’t because youre lost. Draconic is simming higher so the rotation conditional of “melting faces” buff is not proccing anyway so there is no mindflay dmg in the result. :clown_face:.

Its not “simming a PVP encounter.” Its noting that on a patchwerk boss fury and shadow priest are within 2% of each other. On some actual fights shadow is ahead, and others fury is ahead. That’s all fine and dandy in raid but then when you sim the same pathwerk fight for BOTH classes, but without the world buffs and raid that shadow priest now does 300% of warrior’s dps. Its a fundamental problem with trying to balance the game around partial world buffs and then also not changing/adding spells that scale similarly. I.e. changing deep wounds to scale more than it used to but then giving Spriest high flat base damage abilities like SW:D.

The result is that in open world content, dungeons, questing, pvp, battlegrounds, etc that a shadowpriest (and boomkins, and hunters, etc) do more than double what a warrior does all other things being equal. Then add in that priests and boomkins are way harder to kill, can heal, dispel, disperse, etc and its just a joke of a game at the moment.

It actually favors warrior, as bosses dont have 4000 armor, they have less, and that most players have more armor and/or mitigation than a boss with no sunders. Also sunders take 7.5 sec and 75 rage best case scenario to apply when most casters can kill you in under 5 seconds so theyll never be applied.

I know, players like you. Everyone has 5 weapon skill so a boss is 6% miss or 5% with a druid and 6% dodge with a flat 38% dmg reduction. Glancing blows are 40% on white hits but only -15% damage and it doesnt apply to specials (heroic strike, bloodthirst, etc) Most player targets have a lot more mitigation than 38% against physical, depending on the class around 6% dodge (5% in base cases) or far more depending on class and runes. They also can cast pesky things like power word shield that totally deny all resource generation.

Again, maliciously dishonest and clueless. Again, the original discussion was about Arms. If mortal strike crits a boss dummy for 2,500 that has ZERO armor (tested via hamstring with other targets) and a 1.0 sec starfire does 10,000 dmg and a instant free 36 yrd range starsurge that can stun you does 2,700, what do you think that warrior will do when MS crits a target with boomkin armor levels for 1,000 and moonfire DOTS are ticcing for 1,600? lmao.

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“its not simming a pvp encounter, its just simming a pvp encounter”

lol

ofc the dungeons is simmed with every mob having 4000 armor too

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I like how you quote something that is not in the quotes posted, lmao. Some people at least have the wherewithal to keep quiet and not tell the world how foolish they are. Also, mobs dont have 4000 armor lmao. And if they did, isnt that something to solve? Youre literally arguing for a warrior buff, that they need a quick armor debuff application. The root problem there though is as discussed above, even on a 0 armor target, warrior is still woefully behind, especially as Arms, the original post’s topic.

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yeah but your sim does, dummy, that’s my point, you simmed boss armor vs open world encounters

you even confirmed you did it when you were talking about player armor

again, you absolutely simmed a pvp encounter, which is the biggest clownery in existence

see the bit where you said you used a sim to come to this conclusion then said that priest’s do 300% more damage than a warrior does? that’s simming a pvp encounter :skull:

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see they way you compare raid situations ( a boomkin 10k starfire) but when you compare mortal strike to a target with “boomkin armor levels”