Are you happy with the vote kicking system blizzard?

[Luuba-myzrael]

@Shadybolt-thrall

All you have demonstrated that the system works, but it is folks like YOU who could be at a flaw. The issue with that however is that to vote yes you ARE saying you don’t want them in the group/on your team. No matter if you do it for the sake of trolling or not, voting yes means voting that you don’t want 'em on your team.

The same thing goes for everyone else.
If you want to make an argument that folks like you shouldn’t participate in group content, because of things like you openly stating that you troll people for the fun of it… that’s a characterisation of you.

In all of this regardless of who is trolling or not trolling during the vote kick process.

The wrongfully kicked person is taking the full brunt of the action which he is not liable.

Tell how

@Shadybolt-thrall

Not a flaw of a system

The vote kick initiator knows that their is only one outcome of the kick regardless of if he cares for the player or not.

[Af-lightbringer]

@Shadybolt-thrall

All you have demonstrated that the system works, but it is folks like YOU who could be at a flaw. The issue with that however is that to vote yes you ARE saying you don’t want them in the group/on your team. No matter if you do it for the sake of trolling or not, voting yes means voting that you don’t want 'em on your team.

Nope, it’s a disconnect between what I actually think and what the options are. Add a “don’t care” button and watch the votes change.

I bet you think when people say they’ve “read the EULA” or “are over the age of 18” they actually read it / are too!

I guess those systems work too. Weird how neither are legally binding.

The same thing goes for everyone else.
If you want to make an argument that folks like you shouldn’t participate in group content, because of things like you openly stating that you troll people for the fun of it… that’s a characterisation of you. Not a flaw of a system.

Ah yes, because systems should define how people behave and people’s behaviors shouldn’t form systems? The system should be defined by the “characterizations” of the players, this is done through persona and use-case testing.

The number 1 use case for any “online social interactions” should be “how will people abuse and troll with this.”

But you have made an excellent case as to why preemptively kicking someone who openly states that they’ll happily troll the team isn’t a terrible idea; impossible to implement in a way that would be constructive since you would also get access to said system… but this is quite literally all you have done so far.

Well I’m talking about real systems, not AI singularity that can scan your brain and make instant decisions about future thoughtcrimes.

At that point the system would just ban you because you have an unacceptable percentage of entertainment module fun time disruption.

[Karvalli-proudmoore]

I don’t think Blizzard needs to change the system, I think you can just change your behavior.

It’s weird that you’re mad at me for the behavior that you practice though. I’m not sure how that’s logical.

[Manock-frostmourne]

Gotta get ready, starting tomorrow VTK wont be as fun, so will have to just start leaving after the first boss on Ara’kara so these people have atleast something to blow up about.

[Hwanwok-ysera (Hwanwok)]

@Luuba-myzrael

Give me 1 scenario where this applies in TWW dungeons.

Doesn’t matter what expansion is that dungeon from.

If your causing issues and being toxic about it, its grounds for kicking.

[Af-lightbringer]

I mean these types of arguments do depend on agreement of the semantics.

It seems like people think

“Yes only ever equals Yes I don’t want you in the group.”
and
“No only ever means I want you in the group.”

really it’s a binary of “you get removed, you are allowed to stay” devoid of judgment in the eyes of the system.

and so: in no particular order

“Yes” very frequently means “get rekt”
“No” very frequently “jerk who started the votekick get rekt”

“Yes” and “No” can both mean “idec”

“Yes” and “No” can also both mean “whatever, i clicked to get this off my screen”

And of course

“Yes” get this bad / troll / person I disagree with out of here
“Yes” they argued with me and I’m wrong but other wrong people also agree with me.

“No” I have analyzed the details and they are sufficient levels of unga and bunga

I don’t trust the aptitude of the average player to use this system in good faith OR even realize what it does (give a literal PUNISHMENT / deserter debuff).

That is the issue. If you do not think this has potential for abuse, awesome.

I think the first step is to remove the punishment. “Not a fit for a group” has nothing to do with “being punished.” Bottomline. Nobody can refute that. People absolutely have used the votekick system to hand out blizzard sanctioned punishments. I wouldn’t necessarily trust them to do menial chores for me, let alone to deputize them as defenders of their entertainment.

They can’t do it selectively either, because then that’s just doubling down on the judgment part, but what they might do is build it up over time. three strikes, etc. this shouldn’t be happening so frequently that you’re up against a limit. However this could open up the abuse of the system with gaming the build up “i have 1 troll before i get punished” etc.

Personally, I think they should take the votekick out and just allow people to report. That’s all that’s needed. They used to track data on votekick, they can also do it on report.

Even a simple rating system like they have in other games, would go a long way. Want to actually steer behavior? Positive reinforcement via incentive.

That’s it. To defend the current system and play games with ThEy DiNt WaNteD U has been exhausted: it confuses intent with outcome.

I disagree that the vast majority of players are debating the moral grey areas of the system when they interact.

I also think the participants in this thread have collectively thought more about it than the people making the game has ever since they implemented this system, as it has stayed the same. I’m sure there’s some metric of how many CS case reductions it’s caused, so great success!

It was also a fun thought experiment, I have a bit of pattern recognition bias in that in the first time across dozens of alts since alpha wow, it happened to me. and I see these threads frequently in the past few weeks. some people attributing it to “remix brain” etc.

Fun exercise but at the same time, probably not even in the top 25 of “things that would make wow better” systemwise.

ta

[Luuba-myzrael]

@Hwanwok-ysera

If your causing issues and being toxic about it, its grounds for kicking.

None of this happens. If you want to participate you can try to engage.

I can easily ask you what is toxic behaviour. I have played over 100 games and have not come across toxic behaviour.

I have even asked a player if he wants to leave while he was AFK at spawn.

So define what is toxic. If you want to participate in the discussion have some points.

[Liolang-daggerspine]

@Luuba-myzrael

The wrongfully kicked person is taking the full brunt of the action which he is not liable.

and the hypocrisy of the system as it is, is laughable.

THEY dont want to play with you…THEY kick you and YOU get punished.
YOU dont want to play with them…you leave and YOU get punished. lmao.

In neither case does this joke system account for the fact that THEY wanted you out over your race or mog choices…pathetic…or you wanted to leave because they were acting the fool…pathetic
In BOTH cases YOU are treated like the wrongdoer even when you werent.

The system needs to burn.

[Shadybolt-thrall]

@Af-lightbringer

I bet you think when people say they’ve “read the EULA” or “are over the age of 18” they actually read it / are too!

I guess those systems work too. Weird how neither are legally binding.

What Is An End User License Agreement (EULA)? What To Know

What is a EULA?

EULA stands for End-user License Agreement, and it’s a legally binding contract between a software provider and the end user that gives the individual or company the right to use a piece of software in a specific manner.

However, EULAs do not grant ownership rights to the software. The creator retains control and ownership rights, as the software is their intellectual property.

In the physical world, this type of license is akin to the use of a state or national park. These spaces are created and protected by governments. People pay a fee to use them for hiking or camping purposes and agree to abide by the rules. If people break those rules, they lose access to the park and may be fined for damages.

Is a EULA the same as “Terms of Use” or “Terms of Service” (ToS)?

A EULA is not the same as Terms of Use or Terms of Service (TOS), although both are legal agreements between providers and users.

EULAs specifically pertain to software usage, focusing on licensing terms, intellectual property rights, and usage restrictions. They typically apply to software that individuals or companies install or access on their devices.

In contrast, terms of use or terms of service are broader agreements covering a wide range of online services, including websites and platforms. ToS outline general rules for service usage, user behavior, privacy policies, and dispute resolution.

While EULAs are software-centric, ToS apply to various online interactions and services. Both documents serve important legal purposes but differ significantly in their scope, content, and application contexts.

As long as a EULA or ToS is easily understandable, which WoW definitely is, it is legally binding. Your refusal to read a document you sign doesn’t excuse you from what you have accepted - regardless of whether you read it or not.

Ignorance is not a defense, but it showcases how little you have to stand on. Do yourself a favour and read more and comment less.

[Af-lightbringer]

@Karvalli-proudmoore

I don’t think Blizzard needs to change the system, I think you can just change your behavior.

It’s weird that you’re mad at me for the behavior that you practice though. I’m not sure how that’s logical.

that’s the second time you’ve tried to attribute emotion where there is none, and claiming you’re morally superior because you don’t know what a hypothetical statement is.

you’re literally countering a position with an ironman argument, ie, yelling at the ventriloquist’s dummy.

I don’t practice it. That’s what hypothetical means.

You’re saying “system isn’t broken just change your behavior.”

I’m laughing because that proves the point that the system doesn’t work: you can’t change people’s behaviors effectively without incentive, this system doesn’t do it.

[Karvalli-proudmoore]

@Liolang-daggerspine

In neither case does this joke system account for the fact that THEY wanted you out over your race or mog choices

That’s because this happens 1% of 1% of 1% of the time lol, you can’t seriously be asking for a rework of the system based on that. You can’t be. I refuse to believe anyone could think that.

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

In the case of WoW, the EULA includes a section where you agree to be bound by the ToS.

[Liolang-daggerspine]

@Karvalli-proudmoore

That’s because this happens 1% of 1% of 1% of the time

LMAO…found the guy who doesnt read before vomiting his crap up in herefolks

NO…son…its NOT

I heal…i KNOW when someone is acting the fool and needing kicked.
over 90%…NINETY PERCENT…of the kicks I see when healing were NOT warranted.

so you know where you canstuff the 1% of 1% crap…

[Karvalli-proudmoore]

There you go thinking your opinion about what warrants a kick matters again

[Liolang-daggerspine]

@Karvalli-proudmoore

believe anyone co

dont bother responding…youve irritated me now with your joke of NOT being INFORMED before bothering me with nonsense
ignored

[Ritualist-hakkar]

@Karvalli-proudmoore

I just think with the amount of complaining about how often it’s abused to kick players for no reason, I would have seen it happen firsthand at least once

That’s what I keep thinking.

I’ve leveled 3 characters now (2 at 80 and one still in progress) and I have yet to see anyone kicked for no reason.

[Karvalli-proudmoore]

Thank god, been waiting for that

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

Being ignored by Ritahayworth here is probably a badge of honor at this point.

[Liolang-daggerspine]

@Ritualist-hakkar

I’ve leveled 3 characters now (2 at 80 and one still in progress) and I have yet to see anyone kicked for no reason.

did anyone else notice the “ive been kicked” threads infesting this forum since TWW dropped?

this one says he didnt see them lmao

[Shadybolt-thrall]

I’m pretty sure I have been “ignored” at least like… 4 or 5 times.

It is a very common badge and one can earn it multiple times.