DK must manage Runes, Monk his Chi and Energy ETC. If a class is not managing some sort of resource they are managing DoTs, CDs, or Bloat.
If you think every other class just spends and never has to manage you never played the other classes.
yes i know how to play dk. but its not same with rogue. but as a sub rogue we have a little time for do a big performance.
auto-attack is meaningless especially in pvp. auto attack modifiers must go
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I mean energy fundamentally works at some percentage of haste right? Feels never-ending at like 40% haste and when we would spec Dashing Scoundrel with 40-50% crit in that tier.
I mean it does feel slow now. Which is a shame.
Look at the numbers with a spec that’s been brought into the modern day (ret) in timed-key-leaderboards.
Rets are at like 17,125 players
Assassination is half that
Outlaw is roughly 10% of it.
I don’t know how anyone could make it any more clear to Blizzard - what the players want. Just one of our specs to be brought into the modern era. That is a decent rotation (with some challenging choice nodes if the player wants them)…good self healing, good range on our spells (instead they remove acro)…and a decent all-around toolkit that can cleave and not lose 35% of ST dps when specced into AOE. That’s all i would assume most players really want.
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If you have to stop as a DK or a Monk you f’d up. If you have to stop as a Assassination Rogue that’s just your rotation and there’s nothing you can do but keep your maintenance up and wait while poking the boss with your autos.
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People forget rotations are designed to be what their name implied. Rotating through your kit of cooldowns to properly maintain your resources in a way that fluidly flows. A proper rotation will allow one to rotate their abilities in a mostly cyclical way, not withstanding procs and such.
Rogue is in a unique position that all 3 specs get energy starved and must idle eventually. It’s unavoidable. It will happen at least once in a 10 minute fight as dead proc windows and bad luck just leave you idle.
Monk doesn’t have this issue, unless they are spamming Spinning Crane Kick 6-8 times in a row. DK doesn’t have this issue for more than a second unless you’re improperly managing generators and spam spenders without weaving them properly.
Rogue, however, will put your rotation into the floor for 5-20 seconds, even if you plug a bot into the keyboard and have them do a perfect sim rotation. It just shouldn’t punish players for doing everything right, but because our class is hated by someone in the design team, we get put in the dirt.
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This.
This is the thing I notice most when playing other classes. Once I figure out the rotation I don’t experience these downtimes that I experience on Rogue even when I’m on target.
I’m not ashamed to say it’s a novel experience as I am so use to Rogue that I kind of assumed other classes had to experience such but I just didn’t know it.
And it’s furthermore worth pointing out that one of the advantages of Rogue’s energy system as imagine back in it’s conception was that unlike Mana or Rage it would be relatively consistent and smooth. Rage would spike up and down as you generated it and used it and could only be meaningfully generated in combat. Mana was the pool that you had to carefully manage by pacing your spells. It was in fact completely expected that on big fights there would be moments when mages would actually run out of mana. Mana potions and properly spending your mana to coincide with your mana regen capabilities was apart of the skill of Mage. I can recall how much Horde casters LOVED having Shamans and their coveted Mana Tide totem. Remember mana gems?
Now? There isn’t a single caster who gives a crap about their mana. It exist merely as a formality in all but the most extreme cases. Typically only PvP after said healer has spent the better part of 10 mins tanking 5 dps while keeping themselves and their team alive.
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I don’t take Sanguine Blades. It’s more valuable to burn the boss down in execute range than it is to worry about your energy the entire fight in my experience, meaning, make sure I have Thistle Tea for execute range.
Sin was built to kill raid bosses I feel. I don’t even run the M+ build in dungeons, I just switch to Caustic Spatter. I’m thinking about running Scent of Blood, but I need to figure out how I’m going to build it first.
I mean we’re talking about a game where we’re (is it four?) weeks into the expansion and:
- We still need to click our hearthstone 2-3 times at the end of a dungeon to leave it.
- People are just randomly getting the experience off debuff.
- Stealth breaks when and where it wants, negating our ability to use half of our hero tree (on 2/3 of our specs).
And yet there’s no communication. I don’t have a lot of faith honestly. And I’m kind of regretting my choice to concentrate on my rogue this xpac…because all other bugs aside, we seem to have it the worst.
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Oh we definitely do. Stealth not working and the anti melee mechanics contradict the game its self. If Stealth doesn’t work in this game, you might as well just delete the Rogue class with the way they are developing it.
If they’re going to treat Stealth like this ultimate giga insane luxury, then it needs to actually be one.
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I play both rogue and arcane mage, and while the gameplay of Arcane is great, I still love the feel of the rogue. I love how, while it is a high APM class, it is still methodical and you need to think about what you’re doing. I think there is still something there to preserve in the class.
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It’s fine to preserve the idea, but the current form punishes PERFECT play.
They need to either give us our energy regen back or take energy off of spenders. You can still punish poor rotations with energy starvation and make good play worth it, but killing the play for players doing the exact thing they are asking them to is just stupid.
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May I never see this phrase in these forums again 
.
Sin had never ending haste in 8.3. Even 8.2 had better energy regen than the 10.3 patch. Blizz removed everything that contributed to that (granted most of it was borrowed power but it couldve been built in). Exsanguinate used to give us energy. Sanguine Blades spends it. You could snapshot bleeds causing them to tick as fast as (that i remember) every 0.4 seconds. Now you really dont see quick ticks. We got the bleed focus back, but now its all passive. No way to really interact with the spec besides KB and the envenom buff (before the buff was Elaborate planning which had half the duration meaning you had to pay closer attention to it)
Sin xpac opening has always been unnecessarily slow. Before talent trees haste levels / energy regen directly affected what talents you took. You only ever really picked Deeper Strat when you got higher haste levels or if the boss had a haste boost phase. Sin plays so slow now you take every energy regen talent and still feel sluggish while playing. And you play the same talents because of it. Its no good.
Bring back Blood of the enemy and turn it into a Sin Rogue haste buff.
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I’m never resource starved on my hunter or Fury Warrior. While I don’t play this mage, or account for that matter much anymore; I’ve never died due to being OOM when I was. Same with Ret Paladin. Never died because I was out of resources. The majority of my rogue deaths have been due to having to choose between an actual damaging ability or the pathetic heal. All while blowing every defensive cooldown I have. Meanwhile, the hunter or fury warrior run by me laying waste to everything in their path without slowing down. After that you just auto attack until you die waiting for energy to replenish.
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Why can’t they just go back to pre-BFA energy regen, it was extremely consistent and worked well.
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I am saying this in the nicest way possible and with every intention of offering help if you want it: it sounds like you didn’t know what you were doing. Rogues don’t die while leveling. We just don’t. Vanish, sap, blind, gouge, sprint, cloak, kidney, evasion, and even dismantle if you’re a weirdo like me and level in war mode… there are so many tools to help us cheat death - including cheat death. I’ve never been in a situation where I’m auto attacking until I die waiting for energy.
Hunter was my first 80 and yes, it’s turbo easy. Always has been. Rogue requires a little more finesse than some other classes - which are much more faceroll - but unlike them, when the fight becomes a little too much, we get to leave on our terms.
Rogues don’t die because they simply don’t fight losing battles is THE key to succeeding as a Rogue but the problem then is “Why are so many battles a losing battle for Rogues but not for others?”
In my experience I have to be considerably more careful on my Rogue when engaging with enemies until I reach a certain level of gear then with other classes. My sense of “I can’t take that fight” is honed in ways that people who aren’t “Rogue mains” might not have.
Especially with the way other classes work and how they habituate their players. Someone use to a Mage or Hunter or Paladin is probably gonna be shocked at how little they as a Rogue can handle. I think this comes down to just how gear dependent DPS in general are but is particularly pronounced in Rogues. We can’t rely on pets, health shields, strong self-heals, innately high mitigation of damage and perhaps the most important: Distance.
Because Rogues got to stand right in a mobs colon to deal damage the key to your victory as a Rogue is entirely contingent on your ability to deal more damage then your opponent in a way that is simply not true for other classes.
It’s why my experience as a Rogue dramatically changes, for the better, as a the xpac goes on. And I don’t think it’s a coincidence that it tracks with my ability to dramatically out-damage my opponents. Because this results in one’s ability to do more content and burn less resources per an encounter and keep the action going.
Other classes don’t really habituate you this way. At least not anymore. Gone are the days of Mages having to drink after a few fights or Hunters having to heal their pets with food ect. With okay-ish kiting and using quickly recovering resources on my Arcane Mage I can take just about any fight it’s just a matter of how long I have to fight.
For Rogues, the longer a fight drags on the more likely they are to lose it. Attrition is not our way.
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Oh fer… We got rid of it, more or less, around the time Aldriana left the game. Convinced the devs that it was better our damage come from the rogue not passive damage. And then it crept back in. I’m not sure how “gone” it was, I admit, merely that our passive damage was huge, theorycrafter rogue’s complained, it was eventually reduced and then WoW classic was a success and suddenly rogues needed to be like vanilla again because vanilla is popular.
I am not disagreeing with you, btw. I’m just frustrated we are back her again.
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Relentless strikes was made baseline for all three specs and then each spec had their unique energy returns on top of it. That is what we call the peak WoW Rogue era.
Current energy for Rogues is a mess because Relentless Strikes is back to being Sub only.
Too many energy talents scattered in the Rogue tree which means each talent is tuned low due to budget. And it makes it basically borderline mandatory to take.
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Outlaw rogue can perform well at the highest of levels. But Outlaw specifically struggles in the DPS department. Lots of RNG and bricked BTE windows. Blade flurry running out of steam between pulls. I could go top dps half a fight. A situational happens and I go from 800k dps on Stitchflesh to 500k. Overall I cannot pump 1mil+ casually like other classes. Ive dabbled back into Assassination and that might be an answer. Dps accelerates in Mythic+ with high powered Envenoms and poison and bleeed dots sustaining dmg.
Monks definitely have energy droughts my guy