Tbh I’m probably leaving after Wrath for this reason alone. Going back to Wrath I really grew to appreciate the way old trees worked, and remembered how much I hated what they did in Cata.
For those of you who weren’t on or don’t remember, this was the definition of growing pains. They made the trees smaller, but not as impactful as MoP or DF. You also got points super haphazardly so you couldn’t hybridize like Wrath.
I’m really surprised THIS wasn’t one of the changes. I think most people would be happier with the exact same Wrath trees and 5 more points than the trainwreck coming down the pipe
A lot more meaningful talents, as well as a lot of them start focusing on enhancing your abilities, rather than a plain set of passives.
To each their own of course, but don’t tell me x5 talent points for 5 levels in a row into 1% are somehow meaningful.
Newer trees just got rid of garbage talents.
And MoP talent trees, being 1 per 15 levels or something, also have their pros and cons. The native toolkit just becomes better, without the need to micro manage talents so much.
Again, to each their own.
I’m glad its not one of the changes. And where does 'most" come from? If you were to add 5 extra talents, you’re literally abandoning all Cataclysm talents and COMPLETELY throwing balance into the gutter.
And for the love of Calia Menethil, stop saying that todays talents offer some sort of variety in builds. No, it doesn’t. Each and every one of you runs a cookier cutter build, the set of most optimal talent variations to min max the heck out of gameplay.
That’s interesting. I feel like Trees in Classic (Era/Vanilla) were great, but after that it didn’t really make much of a difference, since it’s not like you had 30/21/0 type specs that could give you access to multiple roles, and you have dual spec, so even if you could do hybrid-ish roles, nobody would want that anyway!
I personally like Vanilla/Era trees, and thought that talents in Shadowlands were done very well also. Not a huge fan of the new Retail trees that both force a single spec, and are relatively too many options, but not many worth going for.
Meh… from my personal perspective, Wrath is already Retail, so Cata isn’t crossing any line that would make it too much. Of course, we may all have our own perspectives and preferences!
Everyone picks the same exact tree or one so similar that it makes zero difference in Classic, TBC, Wotlk. No one really plays any super offspec talent tree, so really makes no difference (imo).
Cookie Cutter talent trees at best become a Ronco device - set it and forget it.
I mean… We saw how much of a mess was created when they tried to balance one spec in WotLK (feral). Or how awful SoD balance is. Do you trust these devs to rework all 30 specs? Because I don’t.
Could be worded better. But yeah, a re-work of that scale is out of scope for a Classic re-release. I do believe they said it was under consideration, but believed its ultimately unnecessary and not worth the work it would take.
Now correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t MoP talents just like 5 rows with 3 choices which remained until Dragonflight? I thought more people would be mad about that talent tree than Cataclysms which just removed fluff.
Would have been interesting in many ways if Cata became the SoD of Wotlk but making too many changes is probably not happening.
I’d probably want a rework of some Dragonsoul fights if we’re talking.
Probably remove reforging as I don’t want to reforge all the time.
More developed talent trees would have been nice but I’m not against the cataclysm ones.
I like the Cata trees. The talents feel more impactful and I don’t sit for 5 levels putting points into “% increase” talents which are boring. With those becoming baseline into the class the talents we keep are way more impactful and can actually do cool things with less filler.
Ever flavor of talents always ends with, look up best build, use that build. I don’t know why people still care about talent trees. No one is sitting there discovering a new best build for their class.
Completely disagree. Spending a talent to increase crit is more interesting than not spending a talent to increase crit. And there were still extremely impactful talents. But they don’t have yo be every level. In Cata you don’t even get to pick a talent every level.
Cara talents were just dummy proofing the game by removing choice and freedom. That only gets worse MoP and beyond.
These become built into the class/spec in favor of more interesting abilities that can have more effect on playstyle than % crit did.
The illusion of choice given by the previous trees is not the same as freedom of choice. I appreciate people with off meta specs but the truth is that these trees are wholesale removed due to the bulk of the player base building to guides.
These talents were actually bad. They were very very much usually worthless and bland.
You can call it the illusion of choice, but back then a lot of people just picked what they found fun. I know people laugh at these days, but it really was true. There was a lot more room to be creative and somewhat unique.
‘Baking in’ things is just removing choices from players. Maybe you find picking a talent that increases crit boring, but what’s even more boring to me is losing half my talent choices and just being given them by default.
They where smaller because the end tier talents became specialization abilities that are granted at level 10 for choosing the spec, which in essence is MORE impactful than the previous tree, however, I do agree with you I enjoyed the old talent trees more.
Funny enough that’s exactly the reason why they made this change, I cannot give you citations or sources but I do remember very clearly through a lot of interviews and maybe a post or two that they wanted to eliminate super hybrid specs as they are difficult or impossible to balance comparatively.
Ultimately aside from your boss soloing spec being killed off, the specs/talent trees are not too different from wrath, offer the same or more power, better balance overrall between your own specs e.i assassination vs combat vs sub, and still has the same very overwhelming issue that will never be solved, cookie cutter.
