Extremely well put, Omegall. Just goes to show how important your knowledge and experience are to the community. And it just goes to show how certain other people will stand out by making uneducated comments about the API. I am glad the API is the modern one, as it is way more restrictive and secure than the 1.12 one was (as you stated). If you don’t want those addons folks - DON’T USE THEM. I for one will be happy to use them. And I’m sure that other folks that like me are getting up there in age will be glad for reasonable assistance that 15 years of experience brings to Classic addons.
It’s hardly restricting by not using them. The game is designed to be played without them, not with them.
Especially when you are talking Vanilla/Classic where the mechanics level is far below modern mechanic requirements.
There is absolutely a reward for doing it properly, it’s called actually playing the game. You don’t get any shiny stars and you don’t get any bonus loot, sure. But you do actually get to think for yourself and play the game.
I’ve had friends who use Hekili go without it for a bit and you wouldn’t believe how much more fun they had with game after making that simple change. You get to engage more with the game rather then simply hit things (or do things) as they light up.
Raid addons are not too powerful because Vanilla’s version of a raid addon was a raid leader who did exactly what raid addons do: they call out mechanics. A good raid leader who had to babysit their raid called out each and every person’s name when a mechanic, such as a bomb, was affecting said player.
There were powerful addons in Vanilla for the Nefarian boss fight to deal with class calls. What those addons did trivialized some mechanics to a much greater degree than what raid addons do today.
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I’m still disappointed i wont be 1 button decursing again like real vanilla.
The was the #experience.
honestly I would like to see what players could do now with the 1.12 api, I know it would be broken to heck and back but it would be cool to see the possibilities.
Legal bots yo
Automated questing, rotations, auctions, you name it
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Fair enough. I have no idea what you are actually getting at when you say things like “restricting yourself” isn’t that a blatant admittance that the addons do far too much anyways? Shouldn’t they actually be additional things and not game changing/playing concepts that enhance your game SO MUCH that even pro addon people like yourself refer to not using them as “restricting yourself”?
Honestly, half the pro addon guys are completely dishonest. One guy in this thread is claiming that getting to know your threat perfectly is very easy and addons change nothing. Its just blatant lies. Also yes addons dont actually press your keys for you, thats about all they dont do lol. Thats not the point. They take away all forms of YOU actually getting to know the fight, the strategy, evolving, progressing, because addons solve it all for you literally as you are playing. Even watching guides and blatantly spoiling a fight was still difficult, Addons spoils fights IN THE MOMENT, effectively removing all need for knowledge of fights or learning or timing, you know, the actual challenging part about this game that no one has actually mastered? Beating the game as it actually was designed for, without addons, would actually be a fun, rewarding experience.
Give me a no addon server though and THEN we would have some people actually worthy of praise who actually beat the game without babies training wheels in an MMO already designed for babies. Its just so comical the amount of pretending bads go through to make believe they aren’t laming.
Agreed, which is why they were borderline cheating and at the least undermining the games own developers. Of course they couldn’t design the game with the assumption DBM would be included, thus including it blatantly undermines the entire raid concept. Same with Questie and Questing. There was a reason the developers put actual directions in the game.
I agree, addons play the game for you, and are so insanely cheap, that not using them is actually playing the game, at least playing the game with some required amount of brain power.
The problem with this, although I 100% agree with it, is it becomes the games culture once they are out there. I heard MANY arguments like this when LFD was introduced (Just form a group by yourself IT DOESN"T EFFECT YOU!) and its surprising some of the pro Addon guys are just as dim in the mind to not realize they are using the exact same faulty logic. It does effect us, it effects the entire culture, because once EVERYONE is following suit then just “not using addons, just not using LFD, just not using DBM, just not using threat meters, just not using Flying, just dont use welfare gear, just dont use transmog, just dont use Heirlooms…just…” is simply just non sensible and completely ignoring why these things become common and any other concept falls to the sidelines in favor of the easier, more streamlined concept. Its pretty easy to figure out if you think about it.
What is doshonest or unfair about addons? Your not using a game feature doesnt makes other peoples use of it dishonest or unfair. It would be like a mage complaining about other mages using frostbolt being unfair because he doesnt want to train it.
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Well here we are again on another thread about addons.
Fun.
I am tired of these threads. Pro addon or no for addon I don’t care anymore.
Waiting to see what blizzard will let in and will not allow in.
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“everything” really? At the time they were just timers that told the player when a boss would cast a spell or do a specific attack.
That is ridiculous hyperbole. Addons do not play the game for the player, not legal ones anyway.
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We already know. “Most” is the answer. They’ll likely ban any in-game LFG tools or .IO tools, but that’s probably it.
Okay well blizzard has banned certain addons right? So addon’s do have the potential to be unfair because some play the game for you.
Addons are creative additions to WoW, some addons process information for you so you don’t have to think as much. So I’m saying addons are unfair because they play the game for you by thinking for you.
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If this were true then everyone in retail would be 9/9 Mythic right now.
I’m not saying addons don’t make certain things easier, they do, but they don’t literally play the fight for you.
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Yeah, not literally. Im using a bit of hyperbole because im half insane… probably. However, they do ease content to such a degree its a bit ruining in a way.
As far as mythic goes during Cataclysm Blizzard decided enough people were using lame/creative ways to get around content with addons like DBM they started making content with DBM specifically in mind. This evolution only happened because of how trivial DBM was able to make content.
Id also love, love, love to see total number of Questie, DBM addons during most of Vanillas content vs how many people are using it now. I don’t think anyone is being honest with how insanely different this will be for so, so, so, so many noobs who had literally no idea what addons were vs it being an ingrained staple of WoW culture since, well, mid TBC and then definitely in Wrath onward.
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And you’re wrong. But you do you, as long as it doesn’t affect the rest of us.
Im really curious to what sense of fairness is being violated for you. Addons are equal opportunity to a large extent, you can look online for what you want and if you cant find it nothing prevents you from making your own custom one. Sure not everyone knows how make an addon but nothing stops a player from learning or even paying a developer for his own custom addon if he really wants to go that way.
If its outcomes rather than opportunity fairness that concerns you then the different skill levels of players makes the whole game unfair to begin with. If you can’t process the amount of data on the screen so well yourself as someone else and need help I would think addons make things more fair not less fair.
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You’re literally making the argument for us though. They banned them through API updates. So again, why do you think they are using 8.x api and not 1.12? So EVERY BAN they’ve done over the last 15 years, is in tact and present. What this means, ANYTHING blizzard has been against, they ARE against in classic.
So it would be also fair to surmise that anything that still works, is all within fair play, and if it isn’t, if new exploits are found, because they are using modern api, they can continue to update the API with latest restrictions that fit their needs with 8.x easier than 1.12 api.
15 whole years of protections are in place, to prevent the very automation and “thinking for you” that go against fair play. Trust me, this classic has more advanced mods but far less automation than original vanilla had by far. It couldn’t be more fair.
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I think it will be very different, but I also don’t see how that can be avoided. Blizzard can’t remove knowledge from the playerbase, and disabling addons wholesale wouldn’t be authentic either because many raiders did make heavy use of addons back then despite the large amount of the playerbase who didn’t. Blizzard can’t recreate a game where addons are available and used by people who are really “in the know” but not necessarily used by the average player. I think that’s exactly the kind of thing people mean when they say stuff like “classic won’t be the vanilla you remember, you can’t bring that time back.”