Given responses like:
and
it’s clear that he’s not working with any sort of information on Classic, despite being repeatedly told the information in many threads.
I really want to know how well that guy in his raiding group parsed, because I can believe there are addons that suggest abilities for you based on a priority queue and some variables about character state…and I can believe they do better than a player randomly pressing buttons without understanding the rotation…but I can’t believe you’d do as well with such an addon as you would by actually having a moderately high level of skill at your spec, otherwise they’d be widely used by high end raiders.
He says this guy was #1 dps but that could just mean all the other dps are bad, and/or he has better gear.
“dbm is a waste of time” until rag kills all your melee when they don’t get out in time
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Omegall, at this point, I believe these so-called supporters of using the 1.12 api, are simply interested in exploiting the game for their own benefit. That’s the only logical reason for anyone to want it after all the discussion that has been made.
I totally agree with the culture part, where it becomes the accepted norm. Certainly more so in the other areas you described, where quite frankly not using “welfare gear” for example just significantly hinders you because you are expected to have that increase to the power of your character.
I think the line is a little bit less clear on addons, at the end of the day they are an assistance tool so they do make the game easier for the players that use them. But also the skill variance between players is a lot more significant, whereas in the welfare gear situation the value is objective, skill and performance is very subjective.
It is quite possible to compete at an equal or even higher level than an addon user whilst playing addon free yourself, although admittedly it will take a bit more effort.
But for me personally the engagement level is so much better without bells and whistles telling me what to do.
I like to be immersed in the game, and I just can’t do that with DBM and rotation helpers etc.
Where I do find the issue is though is in forced addon usage. “You must have DBM to raid in the guild” etc. Personally I think it should be left to the decision of the player, if you can play as effectively as the other players in your guild without using an addon, why should you have to use one?
I understand there is a sort of requirement for Mythic, but in most situations those players will actually be more likely to be using them anyway to get the most out of their play as it is, so they probably aren’t really “forced”.
Either way, if people aren’t being handicapped by not using addons ie they are still performing, I don’t see the issue.
Well, from a team management perspective I can understand it because someone saying they can raid just as well without DBM doesn’t necessarily mean that’s true. Of course you could always watch the player’s performance and see for yourself, but it’s really awkward to go to someone personally and say “hey, you’re clearly struggling to follow mechanics, please try DBM,” they’re going to feel singled out and upset. It’s a lot easier to make it a blanket rule, especially if you’re a more casual group where people aren’t really expecting personal criticism.
I think it’s also worth noting that DBM is very configurable, and you can turn off as many of the features/alerts as you want to get more minimal addon involvement (I like it way more when it’s just telling me a few things that I want to be reminded of, not spewing constant info about everything and the kitchen sink).
Not saying you’re wrong for preferring to play without it altogether, I just mean as a general thing.
Isn’t that what guild trials are for though?
Even outside of trials you can see when players are struggling with mechanics, so you can address it then.
You don’t have to say “hey, you’re clearly struggling to follow mechanics, please try DBM”, but there is nothing wrong with saying “Hey you seem to be having trouble with this fight, do you know what’s going on?”. Give them an opportunity to explain why they think they are having an issue.
If they are missing a big announcement or something, yeah sure, suggest that DBM might help with it. But perhaps it’s something different.
I’ve known way too many people who are actually worse because of their complacency as they rely on DBM.
Especially common when you hear the excuse “DBM didn’t tell me to taunt” or similar. (Code for “I didn’t see the big flashy warning nor hear the loud bells and whistles” lol)
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Idk, the average player is more likely to notice things like a debuff or an incoming lazer if they’re getting an alert for it, boss mods aren’t some panacea but there is a reason people say they make the game easier. I do think people should customize their DBM way more than most do though, the onslaught of not-always-relevant stuff can make you a bit overloaded to notice the most important bits.
A boss mod requirement isn’t enforceable anyway, afaik, and at least in guilds I’ve been in the “rule” always seemed more like a way to get new raiders who could probably benefit from it to download the addon, rather than a way to force someone who knows they play well without DBM to change their playstyle. I’ve never had a raid lead who was a hardass about it.
Yeah, I think this is the big one. People just not setting it up, getting too much irrelevant information and then becoming desensitized to it. Overlooking the ones that are relevant.
I believe it does have an option to “show who has it” similar to a potion check etc. I don’t know how many people strongly enforce it, although I do know a lot of guilds say it is a requirement.
I just use it without the dependencies active so if people check it says that I have it, even when it’s not active lol
That explains why you know so much about the topic, didn’t realise just how much experience comes behind those posts.
That’s an impressive bit of coding you’ve supplied the player base. I can’t imagine how you’ve kept up with something of that magnitude.
Pretty damn cool though.
So they can’t escape without DBM ? Damn world first players were REALLY good, they are probably in Method guild right now.
It’s part of the game to learn and react in time. Look like you just don’t want to die from game mechanics anymore… and don’t want to bother to learn them, just wait the addon to tell you everything.
Yes those addons wont act for you but they are already giving you so much informations and think for you. So in some way they are doing things in our place.
It’s a real and huge advantage.
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the only addon i remember blizz banning was decursive, because you could just left click the window and it would automatically remove debuffs from players by casting targeting the player and casting whatever spell you had to remove the debuffs
no what you are describing is how the current version works, the version they broke you just clicked a key and it dispelled people who had debuffs, via auto-targeting.
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Don’t forget about healbot. It selcted the rank of spell to cast based on health missing. Thats gone.
Nope. It’s fair game.