Are people going to take DPS Ferals now or?

[Drinknblink-whitemane]

This is a pve conversation

[Gorgouge-emerald-dream]

I addressed both.
Some feral druids were doing over 1k dps in vanilla. That’s way more than enough to bring to raids.

IE: I’m looking at a feral druid parse on patchwerk right now that’s 1,436.9 dps by a feral druid

[Mobikon-atiesh]

@Potionseler-grobbulus

@Fayld-westfall

Feral DPS that is full time cat and isn’t spec’d to tank isn’t a viable spec

Dude what type of Cat ISNT specc’d to tank? Blizzard mashed all the bear and cat talents together in TBC. The builds are almost entirely identical. Also youre acting like a Cat main never tanks. There are very few “monocats”, most tank when needed but still play Cat for a lot of the time. I’ve probably spent 40% of my PVE time in the last 2 years tanking.

This is exactly right. There’s very little–if anything–about an optimal Cats or Bear talent build that deviates from the other. If anything, you can debate whether or not to take Feral Aggression, but because of the way Mangle works with Rip, I don’t think Feral Aggression is even that good anymore.

At best, the main differentiating feature between dedicated Cats and Bears would be the kind of gear you prioritize. But against Mag’s Channelers? I don’t think Bear really needs to worry too much about whether or not he has sacrificed Dodge, Defense, and Stamina for Strength, Attack Power, or Hit Rating.

[Drinknblink-whitemane]

Yea I didn’t know enough about druids to comment on the specs.

All I know is some DURIDS R 4 FITE!

[Fasc-atiesh]

@Drinknblink-whitemane

You just said why they are all brought into raids lol.

Ferals are mostly brought to raids to be buff bots and OTs, not to be pure DPS, which is the entire point. I’m not saying you can’t bring them, but this all started remember because:

@Potionseler-grobbulus

Cats seem to be the best Single Target Melee DPS when they’re played by an actual cat player and not a pure-bear main

This is flatly incorrect, and is demonstrably shown as such. You can kill bosses with Feral DPS levels, but that doesn’t mean Ferals are “the best Single Target Melee DPS” when we’re the exact opposite of that.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Gorgouge-emerald-dream

I addressed both.
Some feral druids were doing over 1k dps in vanilla. That’s way more than enough to bring to raids.

IE: I’m looking at a feral druid parse on patchwerk right now that’s 1,436.9 dps by a feral druid

Keep in mind that’s with the insane buff stacking that was being done, and what were the warrior parses on that same fight?

[Gorgouge-emerald-dream]

1,871.8
Only 1 player above the druid in the raid and it was a warrior.
All the other dps are below the feral druid.

[Growlingbear-earthfury]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

TBC Classic plays basically the same as TBC

Not for a feral cat. Most druids didn’t know about power shifting. It’s a fun rotation.

[Modernman-sargeras]

Feral pipes and can off tank/off heal/brez/pretty much do whatever.

Also the difference in gear between feral DPS and feral tank is pretty minimal.

Also literally nobody else in the raid usually wants most of their BiS.

Having a big ol’ 18k HP chonker that can do 1.6k DPS on fights that don’t need 2 tanks is nice.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Growlingbear-earthfury

@Ziryus-doomhammer

TBC Classic plays basically the same as TBC

Not for a feral cat. Most druids didn’t know about power shifting. It’s a fun rotation.

Fun is subjective, most druids did know about powershifting. They just weren’t doing it because it doesn’t put up good numbers and at the end of the day is still just spamming shred.

[Growlingbear-earthfury]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

it doesn’t put up good numbers

At this point please stop trolling. PS is way better damage than not. Also it’s not just shred over and over. Mangle buffs shred and rip by 30% so managing that is prio then making sure rip @5 points doesn’t fall, watching for omen procs and managing mana to shift. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

[Beastfury-anathema]

@Growlingbear-earthfury

At this point please stop trolling. PS is way better damage than not. Also it’s not just shred over and over. Mangle buffs shred and rip by 30% so managing that is prio then making sure rip @5 points doesn’t fall, watching for omen procs and managing mana to shift. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

In case you were not on this forum before i will enlighten you :). Yes he is trolling, he and his buddy trollol spent a month “prooving” that powershifting a bug/exploit/not supported by blizzard. Now this this ship has sailed they found a new place to trollol.

[Mobikon-atiesh]

@Beastfury-anathema

@Growlingbear-earthfury

At this point please stop trolling. PS is way better damage than not. Also it’s not just shred over and over. Mangle buffs shred and rip by 30% so managing that is prio then making sure rip @5 points doesn’t fall, watching for omen procs and managing mana to shift. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

In case you were not on this forum before i will enlighten you :). Yes he is trolling, he and his buddy trollol spent a month “prooving” that powershifting a bug/exploit/not supported by blizzard. Now this this ship has sailed they found a new place to trollol.

Just checked, and yes, can confirm that I have had Ziryus on ignore for months.

Guy seems to know how to talk about whatever subject-matter well enough to get people to engage him in conversation.

Whether or not he’s actually being truthful to them is another matter entirely. The fact that I’ve had him on ignore shows my own opinion on that subject.

Note this:

@Potionseler-grobbulus

There are over 7000 players with feral parses on maiden of virtue. Less than 200 of those players were using trolls blood potions. This means less than 3% of those parses are form someone using the proper 3.5 second rotaiton. So your best bet would be to compare the the average of THOSE <200 parses with the averages of other classes, probably excluding the bottom 30% of those other specs who likely died or have no idea what theyre doing.
Do you see where I’m coming from here? Naturally the upper RECORDED limit of Feral is going to be lower when less than 200 players are actually trying to push that limit

Check out Ziryus’s response to this comment and compare it to his assertion that “most druids did know about powershifting.”

Confused yet?

Yeah, that’s why I have him on ignore.

[Fasc-atiesh]

@Growlingbear-earthfury

Most druids didn’t know about power shifting.

Based on all the old threads and forums people dredged up to try to prove how integral powershifting was to the TBC Feral, I’d argue it is more accurate to say that most Druids knew of powershifting but felt it was not worth the effort otherwise.

@Gorgouge-emerald-dream

That’s way more than enough to bring to raids.

There’s a distinct difference between:

• Has enough DPS to be brought as a DPS class to ensure all adds, burn phases, and boss die in a timely manner
  –AND–
• Has the best DPS for that role

The worst spec of Rogue, Subtlety, dishes out enough DPS to kill Channelers and then kill Magtheridon, the current “hardest” encounter in the game. Presently, there is enough available DPS across all specs and classes that you can underman encounters like Magtheridon and still succeed. However, I don’t think anyone wants to be counted as desirable and viable because they can perform better than an AFK/Dead/Absent raider.

If your raid has 3 Feral Druids and only one of them is in Bear 99% of the time, you’re not explicitly gimped for completing your raid. You might be a bit melee heavy which makes some encounters a bigger pain in the butt, but that’s not really a fault of Feral. You can complete content with Feral DPS.

But remember, that’s not what was being discussed or claimed. Potionseler explicitly claimed that Feral DPS was the best single target melee DPS. We are not. We are the worst.

[Lightninjaqt-mannoroth]

@Potionseler-grobbulus

You actually try parsing in tbc with powershifting while weaponswapping/chugging and using a good Feral weapon?

that guy has parsed everything imaginable dude. blizzard has named stuff in the game after them

[Potionseler-grobbulus]

@Fasc-atiesh

We are not. We are the worst.

lmao speak yourself dude. I’m a pretty horrible druid and I was doin 846 dps on gruul before I became the only one in my raid to die to rocks (cause like I said, I’m a pretty horrible druid) and I wasn’t even chugging or using consumes cause we were doing progression. That’s a mediocre cat without chugging doing enough to beat the 60% percentile of every melee dps.
I’m beggin you man, just TRY to parse as cat in TBC classic and see how easy it is to beat other melee.

[Zinqf-herod]

@Hela-herod

Was fixing energy just a waste of time

Welp guess the ferals need to make another giant thread forcing Blizzard to auto include feral dps into player groups and threaten everyone by mass chugging peacebloom juice.

[Potionseler-grobbulus]

The most hilarious part is that this entire thread was started by a rogue who thought the energy fix was about ferals wanting to do more damage, when actually we were asking blizz to nerf our max dps to make the class more fun and less broken. Ferals have no trouble finding groups in TBC, at least in my experience and the experience of other ferals I’ve spoken to.

[Fasc-atiesh]

@Potionseler-grobbulus

lmao speak yourself dude.

I’m speaking to the specialization writ large you goober. As Feral Druids, we are the bottom of the heap. If we beat people, it is because we are dramatically out-gearing and/or out-playing them, not because our class is a highly competitive DPS spec.

@Potionseler-grobbulus

That’s a mediocre cat without chugging doing enough to beat the 60% percentile of every melee dps.

If you pulled 846 DPS on Gruul, which places you between the 80th and 90th percentile for Feral Druids. This places you among the following for other melee DPS:

• 70th-75th Percentile for Warriors
• 70th-75th Percentile for Enhancement Shaman
• 75th-80th Percentile for Rogues
• 75th-80th Percentile for Retribution Paladins

In other words, you played at or around the top 10% of Druids, and that performance put you on par with the top 20-25% of every other melee DPS class.

A 90th Percentile (INSERT NON-FERAL MELEE HERE) beats a 90th Percentile Feral by 50-150 DPS on Gruul, a very melee unfriendly fight that favors Druids the most because of our Bleeds.

Put another way, the Fury Warrior that can only beat 2/3rds of his class on DPS brings as much DPS to the table as the Feral Druid that can beat 90% of his class.

@Potionseler-grobbulus

I’m beggin you man, just TRY to parse as cat in TBC classic and see how easy it is to beat other melee.

…so I can show off how bad some of the melee in my raid are? If I pull 800+ DPS and wipe the floor with fellow Rogues and Warriors, that doesn’t mean Feral is good, it means those individual Rogues and Warriors are bad and need replacing or massive gear upgrades.

[Potionseler-grobbulus]

My god you just cant get it wrapped around your head that only a small % of feral parses are from feral dps mains. I’ve tried to explain this in so many ways.
It is much easier to parse higher in certain classes than others due to hybrid parse inflation. Please acknowledge that. If it’s easier to parse >90% cat than it is >70% warrior (because a much higher percentage of warriors are dps mains than feral druids, and because warrior parses are much more competitive in general), then cat has a better ratio of Effort->DPS.
Also you think you’re better than all your raid’s warrior/rogues because you can outdps them but have you considered maybe Feral is just a much easier class to parse with? That maybe it’s not you that’s good, but your spec?