Except log averages are flawed because they include players who arent chugging and arent even using Wolfshead helm. It would be like if 90% of rogues tried to dps unarmed you pointed at the average all-warrior parse saying “Ah, clearly sword rogue is bad”. Feral is an incredibly diverse spec with ton of flawed playstyles, but Warcraft logs lumps them all together.
Its actually INCREDIBLY easy to parse 90s as a cat because so many people dont know how to do it properly. Everyone on the feral discord knows this already. Hell, anything seeen as sub-95 is seen as awful by a lot of them.
That’s what I said.
Giving out 25% crit is pretty nutty.
Hunters pets get focus back on hunter crits and more attack speed uptime for the pet.
Give my hunter a feral in my group every day of the week.
It’s what Cats are–easy access to Leader of the Pack and Faerie Fire (unless your Boomkin is already providing that).
See there’s your problem. You’re comparing top 25 ferals to top 25 rogues instead comparing top 5% Ferals to top 30% of any other dps, cause thats probably about how much of the respecitve playerbases are actually playing their class correctly.
Prolly better to look at like 60th percentile.
But I’m not looking at overall log averages. You realize you can filter the logs to top parses right?
See my response to Fasc
Sure, but the thing is we can do that while Tanking as well, and we don’t really need any of the Tank aura stuff either (Devo from a Paladin, Commanding Shout from a Warrior, etc), so give a Feral Bear an Enhancement Shaman and three BM Hunters and you have an immensely powerful MT/OT who is propping up all the Hunters and their pets with fantastic DPS and self-healing.
At no point should any Feral not be in a BM group for Imp. LotP alone.
That’s not a problem, that’s showing the upper limits of the spec. The shortest, highest lucky crit streak, best OOC procs, best string of luck parse still puts the Feral woefully under the same OR WORSE luck for all other DPS.
…why? This serves no purpose other than to see what kind of skill floor there is to playing the class. I would hope people want to know what kind of upper end capabilities someone can pull, not what kind of middling performance people can pull when half-assing it.
Because most of the time upper performance is based on how good your raid is.
You can be the best feral in the world but if you’re killing mag in 10 minutes your parse is trash.
People get really hung up over Parses when all it really is in this version of the game is how fast you kill the boss
i love dps druids as a rogue for the 5 crit, but yea two melee in heorics…ouch
The thing is, if they made Feral as good or better than Rogues, then nobody would bring Rogues.
However, Cats still provides amazing raid buffs. You should bring at least one along to support your melee DPS and your Hunters.
I think this is one thing that’s fairly well-recognized anyway, not sure why this topic was created in the first place unless someone figured out that Cats have some hidden potential nobody realized before…
It’s called empirical evidence.
Right but we’re not talking about averages we’re talking about the maximum potential of kitty vs other specs. Which logs clearly show is simply not that good.
There are over 7000 players with feral parses on maiden of virtue. Less than 200 of those players were using trolls blood potions. This means less than 3% of those parses are form someone using the proper 3.5 second rotaiton. So your best bet would be to compare the the average of THOSE <200 parses with the averages of other classes, probably excluding the bottom 30% of those other specs who likely died or have no idea what theyre doing.
Do you see where I’m coming from here? Naturally the upper RECORDED limit of Feral is going to be lower when less than 200 players are actually trying to push that limit
Logs can be filtered down to top 1% parses so that would cover your 3%.
Or you can simply provide a single feral parse, so no averages, that’s competitive with top 1% rogue or warrior parses.
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See, I would consider some of this kind of stuff to be loopholes in the game’s mechanics that can be exploited. Sorta like how Seal Twisting works. It kinda surprised me that Blizzard decided to make powershifting a “thing” now when the grand majority of players who play Cats probably have no idea what it is or how it works. Same with TBPs.
And then you have people like me who know about this stuff, take one look at it and say, “Nah, too complicated. I’ll just do Bear stuff instead…”
Powershifting isn’t even complicated it’s just annoying, gimmicky, and doesn’t generate the rewards to justify it. Wrath Kitty is much more complicated but also gets results that justify doing it(and also gets groups just on the basis of dps, see much better results).
Which the top performers all get to lay claim to good raids, heavy Heroism/Bloodlust preference, etc. You still get to compare apples to apples here and while I can sympathize with a VERY well played class being hamstrung by a bad raid night or bad raiders, no DPS spec requires such ridiculous skill as to genuinely consider that the “true” top parse is still yet to come.
All of that being said, here are Ferals ranked by percentile on Maiden:
- 10% - Last (below even Gladiator Warriors)
- 20% - 2nd to last (above only Gladiator Warriors)
- 25% - 2nd to last
- 30% - 2nd to last
- 40% - 2nd to last
- 50% - 2nd to last
- 60% - 3rd to last (finally better than Balance)
- 70% - 4th to last (finally better than Subtlety Rogues)
- 75% - 4th to last
- 80% - 4th to last
- 90% - 5th to last (finally better than Affliction)
- 95% - 6th to last (finally better than Assassination)
- 99% - 6th to last (better than Marksmanship, worse than Affliction)
- 100% - 7th to last (still worse than Affliction, but better than Enhancement)
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/1007#boss=654&dataset=100
Maiden favors Feral over the other hybrid melee, and it favors melee over all casters/ranged, and yet Feral can barely edge out the worst specs that barely have any usefulness or power in PvE. Feral can’t even beat Frost Mages and only barely beats out Balance Druids.
I do, you’re quibbling about wanting a perfect sampling that will never exist since Druids are an underplayed class and Druid DPS are a minority among them. At every step, at every level of play, at every amount of luck (good or bad), gearing (good or bad), effort (good or bad), Ferals are unequivocally the worst melee DPS spec, and often the worst spec PERIOD, on a fight that already favors them to the disadvantage of many other classes.
That’s why I picked Maiden, to prop Feral up more than it normally would be. On Prince, they’ll be worse because of knock backs and movement. On Illhoof, they have to swap targets to do their job properly. Etc. Etc.
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The thing is, I’ve played a Rogue. I was daggers in OG Vanilla because I had no idea they could use swords. Seemed like an odd thing to give swords to a class that was given Backstab so early…
Later, TBC comes out and I figure out that Swords are pretty awesome. I don’t even need to force myself to remain behind my target anymore!
Playing Feral is like playing Dagger Rogue…permanently.
Sorry, but Claw and Rake will never be as good as Sinister Strike. I wish there was some way the spec could be re-worked to better reflect a Sword Rogue, but alas we’re permanently assigned to Mangle and Shred as our mainstay.
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If you use either claw or rake as a feral in TBC you’re doing something terribly wrong. You should only be using Mangle and Shred to generate combo points. Those 2 shouldn’t even be on your bars.