Ardenweald spoilers vindicate Loyalists

I think so.

People have historically sided with Arthas, Garrosh, Daelin, Garrithos, Kel’Thuzad, Putriss, what makes Sylvanas any different?

People like villians. They just don’t like her.

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I think that in light of her actions ever since, lots of people are long past caring about what Arthas did to her. At a certain point it just comes off as trying to milk sympathy as cover for all the other horrible things she’s done and is continuing to do.

It’s the “my life was hard, so I’m going to make everyone elses life hard or worse too” conceit.

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Notice how the rest are all males and she’s the only female? I’m sure that’s playing in to it, subconsciously for some at least.

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I mean, there is that to look at too, and no doubt that is playing a part in the dislike of her. But Arthas is part of her history and why she is who she is now, so we don’t get to ignore it.

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Arthas.
Wanted to do good. Got corrupted.

Garrosh.
All his life he was victimized and shamed for his father. Got redeemed by Thrall and then got a command position in Northrend he was not prepared for and then he became Warchief with zero preparation.
Eventually he got corrupted by the old gods.

Daelin was not liked until BFA where everything he predicted pretty much came true.

Garithos is a meme. No one likes him.

Kelthuzad is a true villain and people like him for his evil nature. You like Sylvanas not for her evil but her supposed redemption story.

Putriss was liked for the same reason as Kelthuzad. Just more edgy forsaken vibes of WC3.

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At this point, she has forced everyone into a pretty clear decision: either help her inflict suffering on others, or stop her by force.

I’m going to stop her by force because she has deliberately created a scenario in which I have no alternative but to help her inflict suffering on others, either by action or inaction. How she got here no longer matters, stopping her is what matters.

Sylvanas was once a good person too, who deeply loved her people and gave her life to protect them. Can we stop underplaying her good qualities from when she was alive?

(And I’m a huge Arthas/Lich King fanboy)

Technically both sides asked you to play along. That’s why Saurfang socks you in the face; the quest said you needed to look roughed up to fool Sylvanas into thinking you’re a loyalist. Not that it works.

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I get that the Bolvar fight felt like emasculation to some people but if they raised Arthas and had him beat Bolvar in the same way people would be cheering.

That’s hard to take. She couldn’t just be Bolvar or Arthas’s equal, because she’s a woman it’s “emasculating” that’s casual sexism and ingrained bias and I bet most people are not even aware they are feeling this way because of ingrained bias.

If it were Arthas instead of Sylvanas people wouldn’t be so butthurt. There would still be fan boys defending Arthas if it were him in the Shadowlands instead of Sylvanas. We all know that’s the truth.

And they wouldn’t be bullied off the forums for it.

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Oh, she definitely needs to be stopped and I’m by no means defending her or her actions, just so we’re clear :wolf:

I dont buy that excuse for Sylvanas.
My personal interpretation is everyone has lived through a crappy situation in Warcraft. Sylvanas isn’t unique.

As far as I can tell she has free will since her Forsaken rebellion. She doesn’t get a pass for everything she has done.
Typically in stories characters like Sylvanas overcome their trajedy and do good.

Sylvanas has done the opposite she spread her own misery upon her victims for no reason and even there was a reason I doubt anyone would care. Whatever it was it wasn’t worth it and no one would thank her.

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I personally would have loved to see a all out slugfest between Arthas at the height of his power versus Sylvanas with her new death powers, would be epic, not gonna lie. But I did like how soundly she beat Bolvar, who never really wielded the helm to it’s fullest extent until she was on his literal doorstep

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When the Alliance attacks Icecrown Citadel, those who were close to Arthas before his fall state that one of the big reasons they felt that they had to be there to defeat him was BECAUSE of who he was when he was alive; that they owed it to Arthas the Paladin to stop Arthas the Lich King. People who were close to Sylvanas in life, particularly her sisters, seem to have the same opinion on her.

It’s a recognition that Arthas the Lich King or Sylvanas the Banshee Queen are not the same people as Arthas the Paladin or Sylvanas the Ranger General, and that if you could somehow communicate with who they once were and show them what they would become, they would be horrified and expect you to destroy them if they fell so far.

Acknowledging that Sylvanas has become a villain, who needs to be stopped by any means necessary, does not require ignoring her background. In fact, her background should be perceived as all the more reason why it needs to be done.

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That’s fair and you’re right. :wolf:

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Right?! And you to look at it like she wasn’t fighting Bolvar she was fighting the Lich King, Bolvar was just the helms puppet.

Her whole vengeance arc was about defeating the Lich King, it was her monster to slay and she did it. She resisted the helm and she broke it. It was like breaking her own cycle of abuse. It was a hero moment over Arthas and what he did to her using this power.

Symbolically it was good for her. But it was bad for everyone else because the Scourge is free, im sure she’s not free of those consequences.

Unfortunately I feel like that got massively undercut when Blizzard chose to write a story where there was a greater power behind the lich king and then Sylvanas went and allied with that instead. I think it was in incredibly poor taste, but given that the story has so far failed to show a hint of Sylvanas trying to backstab the jailer…ugh.

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What if Sylvanas and Arthas become buddies?

Kelthuzad seems to be friends with her now. Maybe Arthas would be next? How crazy would that be?

With both Kel’thuzad and Sylvanas heavily involved in 9.1(the raid at least), not gonna lie, I’ll be upset if Arthas doesn’t at least make a cameo.

I am going to construct an e-voodoo doll of you in Microsoft Paint and draw little daggers on it.

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Kel’thuzad and Sylvanas have both moved on from Arthas. It’s folks like Uther who haven’t.

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