I realize by default this isn’t going to be a popular topic. Not everyone is okay with the implications I’m about to bring forward but this is a story forum and this is one perception of the story.
There’s something in the Attack on Ardenweald scenario that got me really excited. The main criticism I’ve had about Ardenweald is the fact that any denizen of Ardenweald knows they could sacrifice themselves at any point for the Winter Queen and of continuing Ardenweald’s purpose. That rubbed me the wrong way since that Bastion quest.
Sylvanas’s criticism of the Winter Queen and how she’s willing to expend souls felt validated to me. It seems like I got the nuance Danuser and his team were writing, which solidifies my interest in this story. But what also interests me is how, in this same scenario, it sets up vindication for Sylvanas Loyalists.
The Winter Queen says Sylvanas doesn’t understand true loyalty because her subjects are not ready to die for her. I felt that painted the Winter Queen in a really negative light. Her servants are not disposable, and that’s the fundamental reason why I like Sylvanas as a character, since the “Arrows in her quiver” line came out.
So this barb the Winter Queen inflicted may have greater impact in the story because it’s setting up Sylvanas loyalists to have a situation where they can show Sylvanas that she does have loyal followers, and unlike the Winter Queen, Sylvanas doesn’t think her followers are disposable.
Sylvanas, the one who is responsible for thousands of innocents (also from her own people) in the maw certainly should criticize the Winter Queen. The Winter Queen who only has to make sacrifices because of Sylvanas and the Jailer and the anima drought they caused.
Sylvanas the one who expended souls even of her people and actively caused them to be tortured just so she and the jailer can become stronger.
Hm, how come? Sylvanas has a history of using her people as a shield to die for her. That’s like what happened in the entirety of BfA.
Actually, quite the opposite here again. We’ve seen it in the past that Sylvanas used not only the Forsaken, but the entire Horde for her own plans, and tried to get as many killed as possible.
The winter queen, on the other side, tries to save as many as possible by making sacrifices, and the Ardenweald cinematic also showed us that she gave Ara’lon the choice if he wants to give up on Ursoc or not. On top of that, she wanted to protect the wild seeds over the sigil.
Also have you seen the Winter Queen basically sacrificing a part of herself to save Ysera?
I have actually never seen anyone trying to bash the Winter Queen while defending Sylvanas, this one is certainly a first for me.
It was only a matter of time with how everyone else has been the Target of “they’re the real villains here!”. And from what I’ve gathered the WQ’s little jab was more in line with “you’ll never know true loyalty, because how could they ever be loyal to a person they truly don’t know”? The Forsaken and Horde died for lies; given from a woman who always wore a mask. So any loyalty they would have had, would be to that lie and that mask.
I think the Winter Queen is cool, but I just can’t justify how there’s zero justice when it comes to which souls are saved and which are sacrificed.
Ursoc was a good soul who deserved to be saved, and yet his soul was sacrificed. Here I am in Ardenweald helping the Winter Queen save malicious Wild Gods because of the balance or something.
Surely Ursoc’s great deeds made him more worthy of being saved than some river God the Winter Queen chose to spare instead. You release a flying serpent and the WQ is like “this dragon was evil and killed a million people, maybe he will be better in this life?” Where is the justice?
She also says that your loyalty is admirable but it makes no difference if a Loyalist character doesn’t attack her. She’s not vindicating you, she’s patronizing you.
Yeah, I gotta side with Ethriel on this one. It’s not like the Winter Queen is disposing of souls willy-nilly; they’re all just doing their jobs by trying to stop someone attacking their realm. It comes off as “haha look at this hardship I’ve helped inflict on you.”
And sending souls to their eternal demise to serve as Mario powerups for Sylvanas and Zovaal is true justice then? This is the woman you think has a leg to stand on when criticizing the Winter Queen for reacting to a calamity Sylvanas herself helped inflict on her realm?
The Shadowlands are flawed, yeah. That’s no secret. But Sylvanas’s nihilistic scorched earth methodology isn’t the fix for it. Hell, as far as we know, there wasn’t anyone being sacrificed for the forest’s survival UNTIL the drought that Sylvanas helped to cause.
Not to mention that a very large part of those flaws come down to the jailer, Sylvanas and agents working for the jailer. We shouldn’t forget that there are many more afterlives and while it certainly isn’t perfect, I’d rather have the arbiter choose my afterlife than have Sylvanas and the jailer torture me for all eternity.
Can we touch on the fact that you said Sylvanas doesn’t think her followers are disposable despite the fact that part of her whole entire character in BFA and Shadowlands was that she doesn’t give a damn about anyone who follows her, and will gladly grind them into Stygia for a single corn chip?
She was outright told back in Edge of Night that the Forsaken would die if she killed herself, and her only reaction was “oh that sucks, but heck 'em.” The only reason she ever came back to them was because she needed a meat shield to protect her from going to an afterlife she didn’t like - one which she’s perfectly content to send people to in mass by the way. She had an ENTIRE world super power all loyally doing as she asked, and her only goal throughout the entire war that she started was getting as many of them as possible killed. She even sent her boyfriend to his death, and he’s absolutely nowhere now.
Is the universe unfair? Eh, maybe. Is Sylvanas validated because of this?