The term “the ends justify the means” to me means that if the end result serves a purpose, and that purpose is to everyone’s betterment, than those means were necessary to get to that result.
It’s not validating genocide.
It’s saying if Sylvanas was empowered by the anima from the burning of Teldrassil and she uses that anima to fix the broken system where those souls would have just been used as tree mulch anyways, to kill the Jailer and remake the Shadowlands as a “just” system for souls. That would justify the means. Those souls are being used for a purpose that benefits them, even if some are lost along the way, because they would be lost regardless. It was a worthwhile gambit.
It’s honestly not a divisive concept.
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Justify is to say something is proven to be morally acceptable, that you can follow and agree with the logic.
You can say you see why someone else feels justified about their actions but you do not agree with them and do not feel they are justified. Justification can be a very subjective thing.
Understandable would be I follow why you did something but I may or may not agree with it.
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Thanks all. Sorry if it’s a bit of a stupid question, but I do see some slight differences in interpretation so I don’t feel as bad for asking it.
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It was s good question to ask.
Yeah, I think that’s the typical use.
It defeats the purpose to say ‘this is justified but I don’t agree they should do it’. If you don’t think they should do it, it isn’t justified.
If you don’t think they should do it, it isn’t good.
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Sylvanas is the one who helped break the system. That’s the irony of it all. She’s not doing this for the Greater Good, she’s doing what she’s doing because she’s selfish and doesn’t want to be co-signed to the maw for eternity.
The Shadowlands was working perfectly fine before that and had been for countless eons.
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That’s debatable.
If this was always Zorvall’s agenda to break the Shadowlands, she would be just as powerless to stop him as anyone else but here’s where the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow comes in. She understands that the only way to defeat him is to follow the tenant, rise to be his equal and destroy him internally. That’s always been her goal, “to Master Death”
That’s the way of Death. You have to play within the system or you get dominated.
Respect, Tenacity, Power.
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Considering probably some of the souls from Teldrassil can never be saved, her view of justice seems worse than the Eternal Ones.
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Oh, definitely worse. Especially when you think about it, some of those animated armored husks we fight in the maw could potentially be innocent kaldorei souls.
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Not just some, the absolute majority. And not only those from Teldrassil, but all those that died in the fourth war Sylvanas started. All the soldiers of other races too, or those civilians from Brennadam etc.
Even if she only doomed a single soul to this place just because she wanted to avoid it, that already makes her very wrong.
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I just can’t work out her plot in my head, and I’m not sure if an explanation would make things better. I feel like the only way Sylvanas partnering with the jailer makes even an iota of sense is if the character has no hope for anything, as has been implied… But then she’s apparently hoping things will turn out better afterward? And I think if there’s one thing that has remained consistent about the character up until now, it’s that she trusts very little and the few times she does, it comes back to bite her one way or another (her sisters, Saurfang, ultimately even Nathanos).
Then again, even if things did make sense, I know I wouldn’t feel satisfied with the outcome, just because of the path the story took to get to this point. Maybe it’s better if things don’t add up.
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Opinion noted.
I wouldn’t go that far, depends on the soul.
Here’s where I think you are getting things all wrong. Not sure where you picked up the idea that she’s doing everything for herself only.
She does give personal reasons ie; she doesn’t feel like her own life or death was fair, but this idea that’s she’s only doing anything “for herself to escape the Maw only” is the biggest misinterpretation, and misrepresentation of her character ever.
Just admit you know nothing about this character and don’t care to know.
I think in your original post you’ve already proven how little you know about Sylvanas, that’s fine for me.
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She committed genocided against women, children and elderly, she turned Anduin into Lich King 2.0 and condemned untold millions from the multiverse to the Maw.
At some point Luxio, you need to understand that Sylvanas is a very evil individual and she’s definitely doing what she’s doing for selfish reasons.
She’s not the Ranger General who gave her life so others could live. This…whatever she is now, is just a evil individual
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That would be believable if I wasn’t called “the biggest Sylvanas simp” every other day in this forum…
Am I her biggest simp? Or do I misunderstand her? It hard to tell which angle you’ll try to claim for victory at any given point.
If anything, people call you that because you keep spreading lies and blatant misinformation about her to make her look good and literally every single other character in the Warcraft universe bad.
Prime example: This post
Just fyi, Arthas commited less crimes than Sylvanas
These aren’t contradictory.
I wish Treng was still around. Didn’t think I’d come to agree with this.
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I wouldn’t say simp, since that word has a lot negative connotations and is such a loaded word. But…and no offense, I would say that due to your love of the character, you’re blind to her actions and letting your emotions get in the way sometimes.
No offense, just saying how I see it
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No, I don’t.
I don’t care about Teldrassil, it’s a fictional place, with fictional people. It’s NOT REAL.
There are real tragedies happening right now around the world. I don’t care about some stupid fictional elves.
My empathy is reserved for the real world. Not Azeroth. I don’t care what happens to the races of Azeroth. It’s fiction.
I can suspended my disbelief that the stupid elves were killed for a reason.