It’s funny that the 278 conduits take cutting edge for raiding lol.
Imagine if mythic raiding gave no better gear than heroic except 278 conduits for going 11/11 and them people defending that 278 conduits make up for it.
And this is the first season ever there was even a hint of power added to 20s.
Isn’t that in a sense a condemnation of raiding? A lot of people would stop raiding Mythic if Mythic didn’t reward better gear, but people keep pushing keys past 15. Seems like people only raid because they’re hungry for gear…
Raider.io shows a 91% player drop off from the number of unique characters that have done a +15 vs those that have done > 15.
I’m sure it’s just a coincide that +15 happens to also be where the gear rewards stop.
I hope we see some tweaks to M+ design in 10.0. The system seemed much more friendly to the general player base when it was introduced in Legion. Maybe that was just because it was new.
I’d also like to see more Dungeons each “Season” like we get new Raids. New Affixes each season don’t really mask that we run the same content over and over and over for a whole x-pac. Maybe Season 4 is a preview of things to come for good or bad.
And just like in Raiding I think the need for Addons and Weak Auras in M+ has gone too far and I say that as an addon and WA junky.
I think gear has been the motivating factor for a huge chunk of the playerbase for a long time now. That’s why it’s such a commonly and hotly debated topic on the forums. If someone snapped their fingers and transformed M+ back into challenge modes participation would likely fall off a steep cliff.
What does “done” mean? Timed?
Well, OP. It’s all about esports. You are watching the game being transformed from an MMORPG into an esports lobby game where end content is the only content and everyone who plays is on a ladder for every type of content they do.
Hypercompetitive types love this. They can’t even imagine people not being competitive, doing content merely for enjoyment or completion without being able to look at that ladder and see where they are today.
These are the people who will tell you that nothing whatever has changed in the game, that there is no casual content now because there never was in the past, that there never were any casuals, that everybody in vanilla belonged to the right clique in the right sort of guild and cleared all raids, which is laughably false.
It’s clear it’s the end goal of the current designers. Given that Phil Spencer has said he wants to see more people playing wow, and exclusive emphasis on competitive end game is guaranteed to shrink it even more, what will Microsoft have to say about what’s left of the game a year from now when they take over?
I personally cannot stand hypercompetitive, rushed, time-dependent gameplay.
So yeah, I hate M+ with a passion and in my opinion is the single worst thing ever to happen to WoW.
I like the RPG element of MMORPGs and M+ is the polar opposite of that.
There are a lot of WOW players who like to chase numbers for whatever reason. If there was a score associated with Raiding you bet those same players would be pushing that as well.
M+ saved the game for me. When they removed small group content (mythic 10 mans) after Mists, I saw entire servers die.
M+ was a good equalizer for those of us that enjoyed that “version” of WoW.
I think there’s lots of misunderstandings with M+. You don’t even have to be successful to fully gear or reap the benefits of M+, which to me, makes it as much a casual activity as a hardcore one. (you still get gear from failing, can obtain mythic raid level gear from failing, don’t lose rating for failing, can still obtain titles & mount from failing, etc.)
I hate mythic dungeons so much that I call them M-plus just to spite them, as nobody calls them so.
I have no less than six reasons to hate them: keys, timers, lack of fun, encouraging toxic behaviour and elitism, rehashing the same content ad nauseam, shifting even more focus from open world content.
I’m wrong then and will happily stay that way. My end game goal is to get the AOTC mount and I’ll be doing that with raiding only. No M+ and no pvp.
Most slands buyers didn’t do m+ for long or at all
It is just super cheap recycled content so bliz is double triple quadruple downing on it
It would be much more popular if the low tiers had matchmaking, matchmaker leaver fillins, and no timers or keystones
Just a bunch of friction to increase grind
It still doesn’t feel good to fail though, even if it technically is rewarding. Like back when it was somewhat feasible to gear up through losing battlegrounds, actually doing that was pretty soul draining.
I think it would go a long way if M+ weren’t set up as a binary pass/fail. It could instead have tiers, like bronze/silver/gold/platinum, so if you finish 10-15m after the timer you get bronze, 1-5m after timer gets silver, up to 10 minutes before timer gets gold, and over 10m before timer gets platinum. Percentage of trash killed could factor into the rating too so if your group isn’t a speed demon it can win some points back on completion.
yeah i agree 
with your take on the tier system over the timer. Likke old challenge mode style - They already implemented a similar feature in torghast too, so it’s def doable.
I would prefer that as well
I forgot to add, that one issue that I notice with M+ is that many players want a Hard version of mythic dungeons in which they don’t have to even see the timer. The problem is that these runs are recorded and then pasted onto a 3rd party site where you’re also ranked and put on a ladder.
Many other game modes in other games have an “unranked” version in their competetive modes for players like that, but WoW does not currently. They def need to add a mode where you can pick whatever keystone level you want, with no time limit. The runs obviously wouldn’t count towards rating - but you could always incentivize a mode like this with an improved valor or badge system.
That’s what i would work on if i was on a dungeon team at least lol 
Well, it started n TBC. Vanilla dungeons were a different animal.
DM: “As you enter the ruins you note the obviously nerubian architecture the necrolords somehow adopted as their own. The fetid smells of the boiling plague pools burn your noses as the acrid mist enters your lungs. All around you are the pustules and living sores that are the surface of maldraxus.”
Rogue: “I would like to look for a good place to set up an ambush.”
Warrior: “I position myself in the lead, and ready my greatsword.”
Mage: "GOGOGGOG FASTER BIG PULLZ PLZ! GO NOW PLZ GOGOGOGOG! spEED RUN. YOU CAN PULL WALL TO WALL. JUST KITE NECROTIC K? GOGOGGOGO!
(Warrior does one pull, everything goes fine)
Mage - Has left the group
Pure wisdom. 
other than the trash percentage, isn’t that what we have now? if you +2 or +3 chest the run, you get a better score. if you +1, you still get score and loot. if you don’t make the timer, you get reduced ilvl loot and a lower rating. if you really blow the timer, you just get the reduced loot and no score at all.
It’s mainly a reframing. Binary pass/fail is too harsh of a labeling for what’s happening – if it were actually pass/fail, you’d get nothing for failing.