When?
Shady’s right on the flat earther comment but it seems like it goes both ways.
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Yeah some of us complaining about raids also enjoy raids still.
I’m 7/8 on Nerubar heroic atm solely through PUG’ing it.
The content is fun, the systems are not and sabotage progression.
I’ve for sure seen players claim that adding a loot lock to M+ is a non-starter when suggested, as is increasing the punishment for failure, because M+ allows you to fail up far too easily.
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I see all sorts of things suggested in General Discussion.
I don’t know that I’d take a single comment from anyone, regular or not, as gospel representing the average for any given form of content.
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This low-creativity response is so tiresome.
Oh boy, is this your first expansion? Because Blizzard has been doing exactly this since Vanilla. I think I remember someone like Kaplan outright saying PvP existed so raiders could flex on non-raiders.
Because if you want to sink WoW, then sabotaging engagement in m+ by removing agency over progression is how.
You know that I am right and that’s why you cannot dispute it. So instead you dismiss it with an insult.
You’ll get a more insightful discussion or response if you start by acting in good faith. Until then, you’ll get called out on your utter nonsense.
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No worries thank you for apologizing!
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The reason why I don’t like brewa’s iron curtain idea is that it can force players who want to do both into choices between which they care about more.
The reason I keep suggesting end of dungeon lockouts is 1) it brings M+ back in line with how the rest of the game works for loot, 2) the big complaints that they killed after BFA/Legion was the infinite power grinding via AP. Infinite M+ gear grinding is very similar, which is probably why myth track was buffed, and 3) because in talking to a designer at blizzcon, he said that “it’s not a bad thing if not every player has every item they want”, and I kind of agree with that. Infinite farming has created this toxic expectation that you have the bis setup very early in the season. I think wow was better when gearing was a seasonal journey, not a cover charge you were basically done with after the 1st month.
It will push the community over the threshold so you’ll get enough people being actively aware that most loot is already no agency timegate as progress. Mass unsubbing will follow.
It’s not meaningful to say you played the timegate, and if you make enough people aware they are playing the timegate on rails, they will stop engaging.
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Exactly, blizzard has been propping up M+ by making it the path of least resistance to large quantities of high level gear.
Thank you for realizing this.
Maybe thats not the issue and the slow rng infested method of raid gearing is the issue?
Either way, the disparity is definitely an issue.
I agree with this to some degree, but I think I disagree that it’s necessarily toxic. Or, rather, I’d say it’s toxic almost exclusively because of it being unliateral.
Diablo works this way, even Diablo 1, where everything is infinitely farmable but the best in slot options are so ludicrously rare that the treadmill never stops. WoW just has never been that sort of game, even if the two games do share a lot of DNA.
I’m not against end of dungeon lockouts at all, though I’d like to see more changes than just that in the event this occurs. We already get upgrade currency from M+, which is a big up in this regard, but other flex goals would be nice as well, even if none of them are progression related. Part of the draw of M+, imo, is that there’s always a reason to do it, ironically. I think you can maintain that and still have a lockout.
If you’re proposed solution is to drastically increase the amount of loot that drops in raids, that is certainly one way to do it.
The problem is that, when normalized to items per person, a full raid clear is as much loot as 4 keys. And the game lets you run a lot more than 4 keys in 1 week.
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It’s one of the few game modes left with some semblance of agency over progression. Something people actually want. It’s not path of least resistance, it’s path of least playing the trashy worthless timegate as progress.
I mean, if you ignore crafting.
Which also favors m+, because raid crest catchup is almost non-existent.
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If normalizing things is the goal, they’d also need to require you to do the dungeons in order. So in order to get to Ara-Kara, for example, you would first need to complete Stonevault, and then Dawbreaker, and then City of Threads. Then you can do Ara-Kara. Once. If you want to do it again, you need to redo the other 3 dungeons, first.
OR they can add per-boss skips to raiding, which would be preferable - but which they refuse to do, because Ion’s hobby is crapping on raiders.
I do ignore crafting, I actively avoid touching it. I’d feel like I gave up if I were to touch that.
I want gear crafting to be deleted. It devalues playing the game when it’s already been devalued with playing the timegate as progress to such an extent already.
Same reason I want creation catalyst to be deleted.