Excluding the Darkspear, trolls generally served two purposes in the game - random hostiles you would either have to fight to bypass/gain items, or mercenaries you could recruit.
They’re a xenophobic race, so it kind of fits the motive that they fall into those two categories. Granted, I would personally like to see more of the mercenary aspect represented, not exclusively the “local hostile” niche they fall into. It would also be nice to see a questline that involved negotiating a ceasefire with a random hostile tribe in WoW.
I do agree that it kind of sucks that they overuse the first role in WoW.
Notably… I don’t think there are any Horde campaigns where they fight random tribes. MAYBE one of Hellscream’s levels, I’m not sure.
: Edit :
Wait, sorry. I just remembered one:
Thrall has to fight Forest Trolls to get through one level and he speaks of them very negatively.
: Edit :
But personally, I was never super on board with the “unite the tribes” thing because it doesn’t fit their niche.
But, yes, they were being used as cannon fodder by the Zandalari. Characters like Ka’lak(spelling?) in Shadows of the Horde were pretty upfront with that.
The different tribes don’t get along. This has been a thing in lore for a very long time. Even Darkspear and Revantusk have tense relations despite both being in the Horde.
Working together was something they did in ancient times but they expressly don’t like each other, even if they meet to talk at Zandalar.
The Zandalari looked down on the lesser tribes, and the others respected the Zandalari begrudgingly. This is even reflected in dialogue with some NPCs in BfA, commenting on the tensions.
I honestly think Cataclysm’s uniting was just rule of cool and MoP was making the best of it (Cata had contradictions that MoP eventually cleared up through Cho, and BfA helped further explain).
Yeah and this is how they are so weak. Divide and conquer etc. Which is why if they put aside their differences and united they could be a force to reckoned with, which would be cool to me. But those aren’t stories that Blizzard wants to tell, especially in their TWO (and no more) faction game.
They only write it where The trolls if they aren’t apart of one faction have to be divided and conquered. If they are united they still have to be conquered and made to look united for evil purposes.
Every animal loa has always been a wild god. Bwonsamdi and Muehzala are older, different beings. Hakkar is most likely a wild god too, just an evil one. Rezan, Shadra, Akali, Gonk, etc are all wild gods, though. No different than the night elven ones.
But I don’t think that’s the niche trolls fall into.
They’re the local threat. The local experts. The local mercenaries. There’s nothing wrong with a character or group of characters being tied to a continent or zone.
The reason I didn’t like Cata was because it was like trying to keep the flavor of a local minor threat but with the escalation of a global threat.
A minor threat can be a good story element. Not everything needs to be a global force to matter.
I’d much rather see development of a local threat pacified through negotiation than see that local threat become a global force that still acts as cannon fodder. Which, honestly, is all they will be because Blizzard are never going to make trolls a third faction. They were only united to escalate the stakes artificially.
In … WotLK we have had this dungeon with TORUNDA!!!111 Who switched between a skelettal could serpand and a living one.
So yes Hakkar mabe was a cloud serpend wild god who somehow got corrupted or so.
I don’t think there has ever been a flying serpent god/spirit that wasn’t evil. Even the one in Zul’drak was pretty evil… she was just an ally at the time.
No, they are most likely not older, bwonsamdi to 100%, and Mueh’zala maybe in an equal age, because the wild gods exist since ca 120.000 years on azeroth, after the ordering of the World by the titans.
Troll niche is voodoo, and Mesoamerican aesthetics. Not “being divided”. I already provided examples of trolls uniting. It was already a thing in the past - even most recent one.
Essentially, “I will choose to ignore the story knowing that Blizz might do a total 180, give the trolls a massive power boost, replace their nearly nonexistant leadership, all because mechanically the story is written by writers and they could if they wanted”. And btw, even the Trolls know they aren’t much of a World Power anymore. Like when the Amani tried using the Scourge to take back their lands … and failed. Or the Gurubashi tried using Hakkar to get back their territories … and it backfired on them. Or when they all tried to revive Lei-Shen … and he essentially enslaved them.
They don’t have the power you’re pretending they have, and if you’re relying on a Ret-Con, Meta-Knowledge, and Deus-Ex-Machina power boost to give them that … then even you know they aren’t in a position to take back their lands through force. If they were to swallow their pride and use diplomacy, they might get at least some of them back.
If they just want to be left alone and mind their own business, they’re backward savages and have themselves to blame for getting constantly attacked and robbed of their lands.
But once they put their differences aside and unite? Waaah stop them and their evil intentions!
nothing will ever be as absurdly deux ex machina 180 immersion breaking as catapults flying across essentially a sea and not only hitting but immediately setting to flames an entire island the size of a smaller nation.
sorry, saying that if the trolls united and committed to infiltrationg, guerilla warfare, and terrorism they could achieve realistic victories is not the massive deus ex machina lore breaking thing you think it is.
because the writers don’t allow them to. they arent real, but the lore still shows them numerous enough with enough holdings enough weapons adn enough magical ability to be a significant problem if fighting as a united front with variations of tactics, and then what to do with all that is up to the writers.
I don’t even get what this means. Yeah I am saying that its fiction. The way trolls have been written the way you speak of them is exactly that written, and they could easily be written differently. You just don’t want them to be and think it’s logical and fine that they’re always weak and smashed and divided and tht it’s some great moral lesson about “pride”…
Hmm no.
You like the story trolls have been given, which is fine i guess… but dont make out like its jsut some logic in game physics that CANT be broken.
For me it was 500 Alterac humans (not mages) Defending assault of army of 5 000 trolls - and winning.
No Deus ex machine this time. You read it right 1 human is able to take 10 forest trolls all by himself.
When reality it should be 50 trolls taking down 500 humans like a rags.
Superior strength, height and regenerative abilities should logically make them win. But they apparently didn’t.
Why? Because trolls were meant to lose and humans were meant to be heroic defenders referencing 300 against the logic and reason.
But Droite is likely fine with it, because it’s the trolls who should simply give up and accept of being total punchbags and accept the little scraps they have left.
Just give up trolls, you ain’t humans or elves.
The writers wrote it so it’s fine. Don’t be mad that it’s just looking stupid on paper.
Sounds like a great way to bring the hammer down on them again tbh.
Also sounds like realistically they’d have to be prepared to sacrifice their remaining cities for such a plan; since full fledged guerilla warfare requires high mobility to be successful. Thus, they’d also have to be prepared to abandon any non-combatants or civilians that might slow them down or could be used against them. Terrorists and Guerilla Fighters historically aren’t the best at defending points/people or nation building. They’re more attacking unexpectedly and destabilizing established power structures. As a consequence of such a “cutting of the fat” though, groups that resort to such tactics often are great at cultivating power-hungry extremists and ideologues.
Regardless, its unlikely that either the Zandalari or Darkspear would stick their necks out for the Amani or Gurubashi if they started resorting to such tactics.
trolls being defanged, depowered, beatin and weak is just fine and realistic to you cause its what the writers wrote and it fits the little moral lesson you want wow to have.
but if the trolls united teamed up and showed off their fully fury and power and won some victories for themselves, then tid be a “180” and unrealistic to you and you wouldnt like it cause it doesnt fit in to the message you want the game to have
This sums up your views
edit:
while most of what you wrote here is hogwash I’d like to point out the horde and alliance already basically kill troll “non-combatants” indescriminately. you dont raze entire civilizaitons without killing women and children and others… WoW just likes to leave that part out when it comes to trolls.
