No, I’m saying I don’t believe for a moment that even if the remaining Trolls united they could do anything but piss off the two world powers and force their hand. After Shadow’s Rising with Bwon’s deliberate attempts to push Talanji into more fully embracing the Horde, the participation of either the Darkspear or Zandalari in such a united front is very unlikely. On top of this, there is little to no reason for the Farraki to take the field, and the Drakkari are canonically pretty much extinct.
That just leaves the Amani and Gurubashi, who have had their leadership gutted multiple times within the last 3 decades. If the prior picks a fight with the BEs, that will bring the wrath of the Horde down on them … again. If the latter picks a fight with the Humans, they’ll bring the Alliance down on them hard … again. Its downright impossible to maintain a United Front when you’re on opposite sides of the same continent and getting slammed by different opponents.
Its not that I “like” this situation, but I do see it for what it is. The Trolls fixation on reclaiming a glorified past that can never be reclaimed will only continue to lead them to ruin.
What happened to the Horde and Alliances resources being spread thin so much they had to truce with each other and can’t continue wars? Ultimately we both know numbers never ever ever matter in WoW. If the Alliance and Horde and their respective races suddenly get numbers out of nowhere and massive power boosts… why can;t the Trolls show their own numbers and powers?
Sorry no if the Gurubashi, Amani, Farraki and other troll groups we see scattered through out the land all formed a united front in defending themselves and helping eachother, while constantly terrorizing and cutting off supply lines and trade networks between the people who occupy their lands… they could very well force concessions…
especially during the Cataclysm when the Horde and Alliance were bludgeoning each other, or even during BfA… you could have opened up other fronts and sabotaged both until they were forced into giving up and focusing on more important things… or at least Blizzard could have written things like this, because it’s all up to what they want to write and stories they want to tell in their world…
but it unfortunately isn’t the story they want to tell. Blizzard enjoys the story of “these savages need to be bludgeoned to death until they get rid of their culture and ‘adapt’ to western civilization”
It’s not even about a glorified past. It’s about national liberation and self determination. The Troll tribes asserting and taking back some of their land and being allowed to actually exist as sovereign people without the Alliance and Horde going “hey that’s mine now!”, and without having to totally change their cultures and accept whatever these two factions dictate to them.
I like how people are pretending this dinosaur that appeared in, like, 2 scenes in the most recent expansion is somehow a great and terrible loss of a beloved character…
Not really sure how making Vol’jin a Loa brings him “back” to the Horde.
This is just going to make him into a kind of spirit advisor to Trolls, the same way Bwonsamdi is. He’s not actually part of the Horde. He’s not the race leader. He doesn’t go out and fight with them.
We don’t even know what he’s going to be the Loa OF yet.
How do you do this when you’re people are so disparate and separated geographically?
More than likely all you’re suggesting would result in is the Alliance and Horde finally getting sick of their nonsense and destroying any autonomy they have left. How do the Gurubashi in ST help out the Farraki out when Zul’Farrak is being firebombed by Horde artillery? How do the Amani help the Gurubashi in ST when the Alliance is once again breaking down the doors of Zul’Gurub? How do you expect the Gurubashi to help the Amani when the BEs and their new NB allies are ravishing their city with arcane mealstroms … again?
There is no unity here. No single enemy to fight, divide and conquer. Just bigger beasts they’re going to piss off and then be divided themselves out of necessity.
It is scandalous how this game was framing trolls. And it’s about due that they’re recognised as sovereign political power on Azeroth. They don’t really need to take entire world, but to reclaim some of their stuff back. That is not a crime. Especially when they were the ones who were constantly targeted and abused for not giving up their land and possession willingly.
It’s really disappointing that a poster who is quite insightful on so many things can lack critical thinking when it comes to troll lore. And just accepts the primitive narrative and goes on with it instead of questioning it for how unfair and primitive it is.
They actually aren’t as much as you make it out to be. At least not any more than the races of the Alliance and Horde, who manage to help each other out all the time. There are Troll groups all throughout the Eastern Kingdoms. Kalimdor is a little different sure, but not Eastern Kingdoms. And even then… the Night Elves manage all on their lonesome against the might of the Horde in Kalimdor. Not sure why the Farraki - especially if hypothetically the Darkspear seceded and entered the Troll Alliance - can’t be themselves formidable for their own reasons.
How can Orgrimmar help out Blood Elves when the Farraki, and just hypothetically, the Darkspear, have made their own pact and begin to raid the coast lines and trade routes of the Horde in Kalimdor? and vice versa with the BEs…How they gonna help when their lands are under a huge fresh assault from not only the Amani… but every Forest Troll tribe north of the Wetlands?
I can just invert your questions back at you, because we have Troll tribes every where, and on top of that, I can invert your de-fanging of the Trolls and say that, for instance, the BE population is small, Lordaeron is currently totally blighted and the Forsaken supremely weakened… Humans were “calling up farmers”… Wtf are the Nightborne gonna do all the way from Suramar?? I can go down the entire list and defang and depower all of the Trolls enemies using in-game logic the same way you want the Trolls to be the weak ones for made up reasons.
We can bend this games logic any way we want using lore reasons. You just wanna keep it bent against the trolls because you like the narrative.
Simple, BE/NB portal technology and a canon very powerful and developed navy. The Horde has access to both those things, while the Zandalari are the only ones who have a fleet to match; and they’re being written as becoming only more invested in the Horde. The Darkspear would never turn on the Horde, especially with Rokhan in charge and the Echo Isles being so close to Org.
Truth of the matter is, I don’t like how the Trolls were treated. The Drakkari alone make me deeply uncomfortable with how much their fate parallels what happened to the Inca. However, I’m also not going to look at the current state of the Troll people and think they have a chance in hell of pulling off what you’re suggesting. Even IF they managed to create a united front … which is unlikely.
“I can head canon my races to be as powerful as needed to always be unstoppable. But if you try to do the same for Trolls then it’s totally unreasonable head canon!”
That’s basically your argument! C’mon! Don’t you see your double standard here??
I’m not headcannoning anything. The NBs whole gimmick is portal tech, they’re the ones who helped design both the portal rooms in Zuldazar and Org. There super close with the BEs, who also aren’t slouches with Arcane tech. The Horde navy now has access to the knowledge and resources of the: Durotar Orcs, Bilgewater Goblins, AU Mag’har, Nightborne, and BEs. We had friggen subs and aircraft carriers in WoD for goodness sake. The Horde has only gotten stronger over the years, even with the loss of characters. The Trolls have only gotten weaker after loss, after loss, after loss.
I mean if Blizzard chooses to not show it all during the biggest Horde vs Alliance war in awhile, then you essentially are… at least as much as I am headcanoning the the Trolls would be a very very formidable and scary force if united in their objectives against the current powers.
Again, there was just a WORLD WIDE WAR that was suppose to be very important and draining on both factions, with two capitals nuked…
You’re applying a double standard you just refuse to admit it.
Took the Nelf army being redirected to the south… took intercontinental ballistic missiles being introduced to WoW…Horde still couldn’t hold Ashenvale or Darkshore…
Just gonna say, I think when it comes to the Troll “story,” it’s that the Darkspears (and now the Zandalari) I guess, have become part of a greater whole with the Horde. The Darkspears, the Orcs, and the Tauren are pretty much the heart of the Horde, and are all pretty bro-tier barring sudden acute outbreaks of Plot. Dazar’alor would have become another Zul’Gurub without the insight of people like Talanji.
Here’s the thing, you show me that each of these Troll tribes can take down and force capitulation of their local regional enemies they’ll be squaring up against, and I’ll believe you that they might be able to do what you’re suggesting. However, until the Vilebranch and Raventusk can take out the Wildhammer and Helves. The Firetree and Smoulderthorn can square off against the Dark Irons. The Amani can defeat the BEs. The Frostmane can fight back the Bronzebeards. The Gurubashi can tackle the might of Human Potential. I’m not putting money on them.
You fail to realize that every single one of these scattered tribes is being pushed not just by the overarching faction, but local segments of that Faction too. They are already being pressured by their regional opponents. And that doesn’t even get into things like the Alliance and Horde bringing in allies who don’t have to worry about local tribes in their areas. Or the fact that the Darkspear would never turn on the Horde, and the Zandalari are unlikely. OR the idea that I’m not certain how the Farraki will react to either of the Horde troll groups with what’s happening to Mueh’zala in SLs.
You say the Troll tribes are everywhere? Sure they are. Shame all those “everywhere trolls” are already having trouble dealing with their own “everywhere” enemies.
I have such little faith that blizzard can pull this off.
Remember how they treated Anub’arak in wrath? Making one of the Lich Kings hands a leveling dungeon boss. Then they brought him back as the final boss in what was basically a glorified filler raid (even blizzard regrets making ToC a “tier raid”). Because of the outcry fans did, and it was justified. They even made him out to be some “big twist” of the raid. Now they are basically doing the same thing with Hakkar in Shadowlands.
They will screw it up for both Vol’jin and Hakkar.
Sounds like a lot of excuses that do nothing to change the end result.
The point remains, the NEs managed against the full might of the Horde…right up until the Horde actually USED it’s full might against the NEs. Instead of just fighting skirmishes over logging rights.
This.