Yes, I am implying that. They are trivially easy. They wouldn’t need to do this though. Just saying the content is so easy that one bad egg will not stop you from doing it.
1 Like
Problem is Metro, is that the vote kick exists in all parts of the game, such as BGs, warfronts, IEs to prevent players being held hostage by other players.
Now I remember back in wrath when dungeon grouping became automatic in the queue, (I preferred the old LFG system where you had to manually find people and your server reputation mattered) and you had players (mainly tanks or healers) holding the group hostage and refusing to do certain dungeons (mainly occulus and then later halls of reflection)
The vote kick was also needed because of people complaining about how having just 1 person (the group leader) being able to arbitrarily kick whoever out of the group… so it became a requirement that you needed 3 (or 4 people if there was a premade group) to kick in this system.
Unfortunately a tiny minority abuse this feature… even with all the complaints on the forum about it, given the fact that only a minority of players use the forum while there are thousands of LFD runs per day… I would say the problem isn’t that widespread as yet…
Not to mention we, on the forum, only get one side of the ‘I was kicked’ story.
I don’t see the game removing heroic dungeons or the group finder / queues for content at this stage… You’d just get a bigger outcry on the forum, and if vote kick is removed, then groups would be stuck with abusive players.
Sure, good point by bringing up the other content. Forgot all about that honestly.
Either way, I would advocate removing group-based queueable content with progression difficulty. Obviously things like BGs and Islands are not going to be in that category, but any dungeon or raid content should be.
Make your own group, or join one whatever is easier for you.
The problem would go away in a heartbeat.
1 Like
Very true, and this solution does exist now for people. I just don’t see Blizz removing vote kick in content because of the issues that random grouping can cause. (I rarely vote to kick, and only kick those that have been afk for a considerable time, are extremely abusive over the chat, or are trolling the group by deliberately trying to get the group killed - which means not very often. I tend to refuse vote kicks on that basis)
The cat has been out of the bag for too long when it comes to LFD and random grouping. Going back to the same system prior to LFD for dungeons would just increase the complaints on the forum… there are already enough of them regarding mythic 0 alone.
People are doing that already with the vote kick system. At least with my suggestion, you know who to put on ignore so as not to get grouped with them in the future and there is no dungeon deserter. Its a win win. And when you’re the leader. No kicks for you. I’m not seeing any downsides. Besides, raid leaders already have sole discretion to kick so why don’t people qq about that as well? They don’t because its a superior system than the vote kick. So all your argument is moot really.
Ya, agreed. They wont do it. I just honestly am sad at how anti-social systems like that can be allowed to proliferate and ruin the game time of other players.
Its such a shame, because even if we don’t know the other side, I have seen it myself many times. Just random kicks, no communication, and people who have no interest in actually learning or improving within the group-based setting.
I have to imagine that if these constructs weren’t in place, people would by default at least say something to each other.
At least when I’m pugging +15s or whatever people at least say hello and a few things to each other as the group is forming.
1 Like
There IS a downside here. We’d go back to the days where the tank or healer, “depending on which is more rare,” is god. Better kiss their feet because otherwise they’re gone and you’re waiting 20-30 minutes (or longer) for another one. Meanwhile they requeue and get into another dungeon in seconds. This led to Tanks cherry picking instances and any dps unlucky enough to get queue’d into say Occulus, was screwed. Heck that STILL happens now WITH deserter but nowhere near as often.
Not that i particularly LIKE their solution, but they’re technically right. If you didn’t wipe, and no one died, and the healer was ok with it, then the hunters were RIGHT to pull. The tank was going too slow. The healer determines the pace of the dungeon.
I know, and it’s why I miss the old system, where your server reputation mattered and you at least spoke to people… but with the advent of the gogogo mentality and people wanting the dungeon over and done with - I don’t see communication really happening in grouped content unless you’re doing the hard stuff.
Again cat out of the bag there. We saw this coming back in wrath when the LFD system was first brought out… but the complaints about elitist groups not allowing them to run dungeons, or hours in the lfg channel looking for groups won out and so convenience was born.
Granted grass isn’t always greener either. My housemate used to play FF14 and I didn’t see much communication in their queued system of dungeons either… so it’s an industry problem.
You just can’t force people to be social.
Its true, but you can encourage it for sure.
1 Like
Wouldn’t happen with this content. It can be done easily without tanks.
1 Like
There’s a solution to this as well. Allow non-tank groups of 6 or 7 to compensate for no tank. Boom, dps insta-queues. Honestly, there’s so many creative solutions to the ancient paradigm Blizz peddles its crazy.
You guys need to start thinking outside the box Blizz has created around you.
Edit: As the MVP said, a group of 5 dps probs don’t even need a healer or tank at those levels.
Honestly, a dps instead of a tank is just fine in these difficulties. I’d say you should have either a healer OR a tank. You don’t need both.
Having 5 dps might actually be best though, because things just die so much quicker no one really needs healing.
1 Like
But he wasn’t slow he was pulling fine, healer pulled extra. The huntards kept pulling I meant didn’t even bother responding why they kicked him. So no they had no reason to kick they did it because they were able to.
We all had a first time experience in a dungeon and it’s not going to kill anyone if the run is 2 seconds slower specially while leveling and it is not on a timer.
Make vote kick come at a cost to the initiator and voters. I don’t know what best cost would be. straight gold, their own queue debuff (starting after they leave dungeon), less loot % chance. I dunno.
But if there is a cost to it, people will be less inclined to just blindly press yes whenever it pops up. People will be less inclined to use it for trollish behavior in general.
Will it 100% solve things? No. But my money is on it substantially reducing (ab)use of it.
That’s your opinion. OBVIOUSLY the healer and 2 other dps (total 3 people the majority) thought he was. That means they win.
I’ll admit i don’t queue for heroics often but i’m fairly certain there are still some bosses that are impossible without a healer to be sure, possibly a tank. If only because some things have to be dispelled. Remember all heroics and base mythics will be increased in difficulty after the raid tier.
Except that just means that ONE guy can feel free to troll you instead. Now instead of having to worry about groups of 3 kicking you, you have to worry about one guy FORCING you to kick him to give you deserter, or take your gold, or reduce your chances of getting loot.
And of course it is my opinion and just because they outnumber us doesn’t mean they were fair.
Yes it does. The majority of the group thought he was going too slow and didn’t want to run with him anymore. You thinking 3 people should be forced to keep playing with him is what’s really not fair.
nono, the current functionality would still be in place, where majority would have to vote yes to kick.
That’s a good point! Wasn’t thinking about that.
But then the conclusion here is that you’re not giving the three people who kicked him the benefit of the doubt, which is worse just based off of numbers.