I’m not advocating for its removal, you guys get so defensive when anyone dares brings up the fact that M+ is being relied on too much to carry the game.
The fact that you can’t enjoy the game outside of spamming the same 8 dungeons over and over again says a lot about the current state of the game.
This is what so many people have been saying for years.
WoW has a horrible time attracting and keeping new players too, because the barrier to entry into M+ is very steep.
The older versions of the game had way more stickiness, because those versions were just way more casual friendly.
On the OP’s original point, I’ve thought this for a long time; I wish they’d get raids on a little better parity as far as gearing, particularly since this last patch. If I don’t win anything directly in raid (at the moment), it’s unlikely that I’ll pick the 415 out of the vault vs one of the 437 options I’ve got from M+… makes raiding feel a bit ‘why bother’ at the moment.
I’m not sure if that feeling will change a ton once the catalyst is open.
To be clear I have never enjoyed pve in this game outside of raiding in the time we didn’t have mythic+. I did a lot of PvP but that was all instanced and really a separate discussion on the state of any of that. I don’t even know what could be added that I would enjoy, I’m all for content other people enjoy being improved though.
Blizzard bringing back old dungeons was a smart call. What happened before M+? Blizzard would release dungeons that would become obsolete the next raid tier. Old expansions would get forgotten. They are sitting on a gold mine of content and making them relevant again is the smartest thing they did.
How is questing and achievement hunting fun? If you don’t like M+ then don’t participate. I don’t do things I don’t find fun, except I don’t make a stink about it.
You have also completely dodged me asking for any data to support another form of content being more popular.
On the M+ discord we constantly talk about what dungeons we want to see come back. BRD Upper City, Dead-Side Strat, Magister’s Terrace, Pit of Sauron, Utgarde Keep, Stonecore, Blackrock Caverns, LBRS Part 2, on and on. There’s so many good dungeons to choose from.
If Blizzard continues to bring back 1 “legacy” dungeon per season I’d be extremely pleased.
I’d even be down for stuff like Underbog or Steam Vaults to return. There’s just an absolute treasure trove of places to bring back that, with a bit of modernization, could feel like brand new content while substantially reducing the workload to create that content.
I doubt M+ is keeping people interested in the game, like a lot of you think on these forums. The M+ defenders in this thread are extremely biased when it comes to debating this topic.
I bet adding housing to the game would be a way more popular addition to the game than M+.
Again, not advocating for its removal here, I just wish they would minimize its importance in the end game. Keep the system in the game, but remove the gear from the system and reward cool mounts, transmog and other unique rewards. That way it would truly be optional content, instead of being rammed down the throats of players.
M+ operated a lot better in MoP and WoD when they were challenge modes. They could come up with a lot more cooler designs if M+ was structured like challenge modes.
You gonna back up when that was or nah?
Blizz lost 10 million *monthly active users over the course between legion and shadowlands, but that was across all of its games. So i have no idea what youre referring to.
Edit: added the monthly because thats still important to note.
Double edit: the chart i found and am looking at is 46m down to 26m across 4 years.
All of Blizzard’s games have been losing players. D4 will help a lot, but I think DF sold terribly. The fact they have mentioned any sales figures is kind of alarming.
I mean, Mythic raid is just as locked as the vault. You only have the 1 chance for the item you want to drop at max ilvl per week (maybe 0 if it’s from one of the later bosses you haven’t killed on mythic yet).
The heart of it for Raid vs M+ gearing is that they ask 2 different questions.
Raid asks IF you get the item at a relevant ilvl.
M+ asks WHEN you get the item at a relevant ilvl.
The vault itself is the same weekly lockout, but the point I was trying to make was that they have access to higher ilvl without having to rely on Vault, even though to do get vault.
They can get Mythic raid drops and Mythic raid vault, but M+ can’t get the top ilvl unless it’s from vault.
And the point I’m making is that it’s still only 1 chance per week for max ilvl, 3 chances max for the item to be useful.
vs M+ you have infinite chances per week at a 441 version of that exact item, so the question moves from if you get the item, to when you get the item.
I mean, I would say a raid clear is, but then we’re just locked out for the week. M+ being no lock out and farm farm farm is sadly always going to be the case with M+. Raids have lock outs and M+ is endless farm
You can only get one piece of gear higher than 441 once a week with m+, but you can with 6 or so bosses in raid and you want them to be repeatable? You wanna kill m+ with that?
They’re gonna monkey paw your wishes. Ok, you can repeat raid, but you can’t get higher than 441 and then gonna pray on vault for any higher. GG.
It’s closer to comparing multiple guaranteed 441s to a chance at a 447.
457 only exists for 2 slots (one or both of which might not even be good for your class/spec), and those are the hardest to get items in the game (since they are extra rare drops from a pool of already rare items).
a dozen people stick out in these forums they may toon swap but if you pay even the slightest of attention you know who they are. B-tags would resolve these issues.
