Here’s where you lost your argument. That’s anecdotal evidence. Logs show different.
Please pass the g@nj@…
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I am the gift that keeps on giving.
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I’m not gonna sit here and provide you with logs, when on a good pull I spike to 2.5 mill, level out at about 1.5 mill and sustain single target in averages of 600k to 700k if I’m really lucky with procs. Look around a bit, maybe get your gear up and fix your talent tree and you’ll realize you’re wrong. This isn’t an argument we’re having here you weird debate bro. It’s just me pointing out that your assertion that Ret ISN’T over performing is actually incorrect. Even with the pre-patch nerf the damage is solid. And with the stat weights being what they are at 80 and itemization being weird, Paladin talents make up the difference in lack luster haste and mastery. And I won’t argue for it to be nerfed because unlike some of us in the thread I’d rather all the other classes be brought to the same level and let actual skill be the determining factor in performance not nerfed skills and talents.
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I’m not going to lie, although I knew some nerfs were coming for Frost, I did not expect it to get nerfed TWICE before Fury got so much as looked at. Why do I have to put up with my spec being complete dog**** to play, until I actually get good gear, when others are insane right out of the gate? Pally rework lasted for how long now, and Frost gets shafted immediately? Such a joke.
I’ve already decided that if gear doesn’t solve the current issues with frost I’m deleting this garbage class because Blizzard is repeatedly trying to tell us to not play this dumpster fire, not that I should have to play through the worst possible iteration of a class before I get to the good part in the first place (looking at Ret and Fury)
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(Shakes his head in his hand)
Do you not understand the difference between anecdotal evidence (you) and actual data??
(You can’t make this $%$# up)
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I dont waste my time trying to convince people who aren’t interested in being convinced. Also I’ll add another melee class over performing, WW MONKS.
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This is what my thoughts were. It feels bad that so much of our damage comes from a 45 min cd pairing of DB and pillar and most of it coming from hero talents. I would have rather seen tuning to DB than things like oblit and frost trike. Don’t want a shadowlands repeat where you do 0 damage outside of cds as that playstyle is not ideal.
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Why not just quit? There is about a 90% chance that you will still be playing DK 10 months from now continuing to complain about absolutely nothing.
So why not do yourself and everyone else a favor and just move on? You already arent happy because a few small nerfs happened and you clearly havent been happy for a long while. So just go play another class or game and quit with the pity party.
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We got nerfed literally three days later after our rework.
Tell you what, champ…
Take your argument over to the paladin forum, make a post about paladins over performing, use your anecdotal evidence, and if you can convince them, I’ll publicly apologize and admit my mistake.
Whadayou say…
Look bud, bub, bucko, champ, sport. If you can’t do the damage, and it being my second alt is 580, and can pump those numbers, again, in heroics, early season, not a M+ sweat festival, and you can’t. Then I don’t know what to tell you. The adjustments paladins got were heavy handed, but so far, they haven’t hurt their DPS output. I’ve run many heroics since launch so far, and pretty much 80% of Ret pallies I’ve run into, are pumping. Again, friendo, buddy, chum, chuckles, I think maybe you need to put in a little more work on your gear and then come back and have a talkie talkie. Okay friend? Fact is, 10%, 4% 6% across the board hits, second run on Frost thus far, smacks of gross over correction.
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This is one of my biggest gripes with the spec because it always feels that way, which is why I usually veered away from 1h Frost. It felt like smacking things with broken oars until CDs came through.
The reason why they arent crossing them over to PvP is because of the fact that the big Deathbringer nerfs are still coming. That will kill them Pvp. I knew no way the top teams want to face off against frost DKs. They are just too scared.
I didn’t ask you dat. Let’s try this again:
Whadayou say???
Look buddy, friendo, Sally sal salvatore, Mickey the Moose, pal. I want nothing from you, you’ve got nothing I want. I’m just laying it out as I’ve been seeing it as my damage meters have been showing me for all the runs I’ve done as, and along side other Ret Paladins who know what they’re doing, that Ret Paladins aren’t under performing to the degree you’re insinuating. I started out as a paladin in 04, then moved onto DK in WOTLK, then when Legion dropped DH, I was that too and a smattering of over classes since. I’ve got nothing to prove to you, I just think it’s funny that you’re wrong. 
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Yeah, I thought so. To scared to take up my legit challenged to you.
Hes a troll. Just ignore him like everyone else does.
Blizzard loves to poop on Dk’s time and time again, we haven’t been competitive or great since WoTLK and that makes me genuinely sad. Blizzard leave us alone for once would you?
This sucks I remember a time when even trying to get an invite to m+ as frost was a no go and it looks that’s where we’re headed again
I love that there are talents for effects that are like “boost damage by 5%” for a whole point.
And then there’s patch notes that are “reduced damage by 5%” so like… you invalidated a whole talent point… that’s good design.
And yeah I know this goes for any class, but a lot in that first post as I read it… kinda stands out against many talent choices I have right now…