Another LFD rant, Blizz you gotta wake up

If you only exected the experience of the original game, Dungeon Finder would be in the game for about 25% of the content at most, but not necessarily in the game at all.

Again, I never said you did. I was just commenting on the people who do post those.

I have no problem with that. I quit WoW at the end of Legion myself. I was only specifically addressing the people who say it as a threat to try and coerce Blizzard. Nothing more. People are welcome to unsub for whatever reason they like, whether I agree with their reasoning or not. I have no expectation for people to be ‘loyal’ to WoW.

That’s been my experience too. I don’t doubt for a second that there’s a lot of people who want and some who could benefit from it greatly, but I don’t think there’s any evidence to suggest that these people make up a majority.

Objectively, we just seem to have a different view of that reality. Though there’s some subjective evidence.

I’d say that a feature’s significance can largely be evidenced by the amount of spam you see on these forums begging for their implementation. Dungeon Finder, HvH battlegrounds, dual spec, drums of war change, etc. What we see on forums can’t confirm what portion of people want something, but it can certainly signal how important they are to the people here, and it’s almost invariably because the thing they want is significant to their experience.

Yeah, I’d have to agree that there are far too many people who have a sort of all or nothing attitude towards changes. Which is honestly pretty ridiculous, since we have actual proof that the experience can’t be the same without changes.

I think the area where most of us end up disagreeing with each other is in the degrees of that sort of thinking.

How can you say that though, when there are actual people (like myself) who say that they like those aspects of the game? And not because they waste time, but because they add a sort of merit to the game that can’t be boiled down to just time spent playing?

The game was designed this way because it follows a certain design philosophy about what makes a game fun. Sure, it can’t please everyone’s sense of ‘fun’, but many of us actually treasure those aspects of the game. How then can you possibly say that they exist only because of a lack of respect towards the devs’ audience?

Yeah, I’ve found myself explaining over and over again that there are two sides of this issue: One is that none of us here can possible glean what the consensus is among all the players based on what we see on forums and social media platforms. We DO NOT represent all of the players in the game, especially since we generally tend to flood to the forums during times of controversy. The other thing is that Classic doesn’t need to appeal to the majority, even if there is a clear consensus. Appealing to the widest possible audience is what they do with Retail. Appealing to a specific audience was the point of Classic.

The 90% of you are the vocal minority that all come to the forums to complain.

The actual majority don’t want LFD in Classic, as we know automation was the beginning of the end for WoW.

If 90% of the players actually wanted LFD, they’d be adding it.

So the gold sellers who spam constant boosting service will leave due to a lack of attention being paid to their advertisements in the “LFG” channel is what you’re saying? Sounds like a win to me.

People have been repeating this misinformation even though it’s been pointed out several times that it’s wrong. Wrath didn’t have the dungeon finder for 13 months and had it for 12 months.

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I said it was present for about 25% of the content in Wrath.

There was no dungeon finder for 3 raiding tiers (T7, T8 and T9), and then we had it for 1 raiding tier (T10). If you include non-tiers (Eye of Eternity, Obsidium Sanctum, Ruby Sanctum, Onyxia) the amount of content becomes 6 raids without dungeon finder, 2 raids with it. Either way, there’s 3 times as many raids without dungeon finder than with, whether you count non-tier raids or not. Even if you don’t count Onyxia (since it was an anniversary event), there’s still more than double the raids whose existence happened entirely in Dungeon Finder’s absence.

What part of this is “misinformation”?

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This. Straight nailed it.

do you have any proof? citations?

Before was ‘‘Not part for majority of Wrath’’.

Now thats been debunked its ‘‘cOnTEnt’’.

Edit: how long did the cOnTEnt LFD came out with lasted?

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Which part are you asking about?

“Alright. That’s purely untrue. Name me the realm you’re on and I’ll go check this myself.”

“I made a character and walked around in Stormwind and saw people looking for more.”

I’m still trying to get past this. Seriously making a level 1 and standing there for about 10 minutes reading LFG chat to PROVE someone wrong on a gaming forum. Wow. Yeah, that’s hardcore proof. :ok_woman:

I guess I’m wondering just why the #nochanges crowd have suddenly become #somechanges. Oh wait, it’s because #changesIwant. Got it.

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That is the mistaken idea that the content is only the raids and when the last one is released the content ends. But people continue to play the game long after that content is released. People are still doing the early normal dungeons on alts after the final raid is released. The so called end game isn’t all that people play. People played the content in wrath for 25 months. Most people didn’t just unsub when the last raid is completed by their main.

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You are cheesing the argument pretty hard by saying “content” instead of just using the more common sense method of how many months the feature was in.

What I believe is going to happen is they will begin without it (like the original) and after hearing “feedback” put it in during the last or one of the later phases to kinda mimic the original all while saying “see guys we listen.” It is the blizzard way of doing things.

I also think most of the anger and disappointment would not exist if they just stuck to a simple “release it with icc as it originally was.” (I’d prefer at release but could live with that). Most people I’d assume had no indication they were going to yoink the whole damn thing, hence the anger.

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I literally checked a handful of questing zones and saw level-appropriate players were there. I saw people in level-appropriate dungeons and they outnumbered the amount of level 70s in them by more than 5:1, so at least some of them were actually running the dungeons. I saw people posting LFM messages in trade and in the LookingForGroup channel.

I don’t know what you mean by “hardcore”, but yes it is absolutely proof that the statement “no one levels 15-60 unless it’s by boosting this meaning literally no level dungeon groups are formed ever” is factually wrong.

Here's the quote

Are you referring to me? I’ve never said that I didn’t want any changes whatsoever. In fact, people who say they want no changes seem to be pretty rare on these forums, and when I do see them, they almost never actually know what “#nochanges” means.

Yet I never said that the content “ends” once the last phase of content is released. Once again, my point is that Dungeon Finder isn’t iconic to the Wrath experience by any objective measure.

I have given both of these arguments many times each, actually.

Yeah, I could see that happening. I don’t ever want to see Dungeon Finder in any version of Classic, but I definitely wouldn’t feel cheated in any way if they implemented in the ICC phase. All I’ve ever wanted from Classic was the so-called ‘authentic experience’, and while I think leaving Dungeon Finder out forever would be more authentic to the direction the game had always gone, and was going when Activision merged with Blizzard’s parent company in 2008, the game would still be ‘authentic’ if it were implemented in a late phase.

Though I disagree with you about the anger and disappointment, at least in a general sense. I feel like this is a feature that makes no sense outside of an all or nothing context. If they add it at all, they’re standing by the decisions that were made in the offices of Activision Blizzard in 2009 and they agree that it’s the more genuine direction for Wrath. If they take the opposite stance, then it shouldn’t be implemented ever. I think a late launch would be a fence-sitting half measure.

People are constantly trying to find ways spin their personal likes and dislikes into claims of objective standards. Your claim of objective measures are your subjective opinion based on what is more important to you personally. Most people do more dungeons than raids so one could “objectively” say dungeons are a bigger part of the content than raids.

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I haven’t “spun” anything. What part of my assessment of the feature seems subjective to you? I think you may be misunderstanding the difference between subjective and objective reasoning. I’ve given plenty of both.

That’s incorrect. They might think it’s an objective viewpoint, but it’s not.

“A handful” Well, you aren’t accounting for a lot of different factors. What time of the day was it? Was this a LFM - need tank? LFM- need heals? LFM - need tank and heals? LFM need 2m? There are a TON of variables that enter in to it. Please just admit that you don’t want LFD because you don’t believe that the casual player that loves the game but doesn’t have an hour to spare trying to form a group is worthy of playing the game.

The problem is that you’re saying “Go take every bad thing we hate about Retail and do that”. Where 90% of the people playing Classic hate far more than LFD in Retail and that one feature is no-where near enough to make up for the spreadsheet gaming, lack of any community, toxic behavior from random strangers, and the soul-less world it exists in.

“Go play Retail” is basically a guaranteed way to piss everyone off, because you’re boiling it down to “Retail’s only problem is LFD”

You always think your opinions are correct and need no defense or argument and everyone else is incorrect if they disagree with you. That’s why you’re a waste of time to talk to.

That’s the whole point. Like them, you might think your opinions are objective measures but they aren’t

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It’s also a lie because they know retail’s problems go way beyond just the lfd. There is a myriad of problems with retail. No one against the lfd would go play retail if it was eliminated in retail

You have eyes and a brain, put them to use and look at all the public polls yourself.

Majority of people want RDF.

edit: here I even did the hard part for you.

US forum thread

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/looking-for-dung-poll/1223713

EU forum thread

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/poll-lfd-in-wotlk/353670

Strawpoll with the most votes I could find

https://strawpoll.com/polls/jVyGJaER1Z7/results

Some youtuber’s poll (WillE)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1haxYclmhXwa4FKFqYSaRw/community?lb=Ugkx_iEkW00THPdKlhnvEnYO-U9gzYLJNXEI

Some other youtuber’s poll (Solheim Gaming)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaZhtHB-MqwvMS2YhPRujYQ/community?lb=UgkxYzNd-AqGv1vPjUgn2UuoaDBlYBj0TQ51

And here’s the only poll I could find that supports no RDF jk it’s another poll that supports RDF

https://www.reddit.com/poll/u7kqc4
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