To be fair, we really didn’t. We had a soul gem that could’ve been anyone if they felt like it. We didn’t need a bad Uther storyline because of him, so that could’ve been left out.
But since they chose to add him back in and screw up more lore, my opinion is that file 13’ing him with a Sylvanas screw you monologue was bad.
Arthas dominating the Helm while his minions built the citadel around him has been part of the lore for a long time. But that’s back when we only knew of Ner’zhul’s presence.
Bolvar told us later of the other voice that he was able to push back and the Jailer confirmed to us that Arthas had done the same, along with Ner’zhul.
Which, honestly, makes sense. The Jailer wasn’t as powerful back then.
I think I expected more for showtime for Arthas in Shadowlands than they appear to be giving him. Like what was the point of this part in the cinematic anyways?
Also I find it kind of weird that Varian was around to begin with. There was some notion that he was wholely destroyed by Gul’dan’s Fel Magic so I felt like it made sense that he wasn’t in the Shadowlands given the nature of his demise. Maybe that wasn’t official lore, just player speculation. I honestly think it would have been a better callback have had Anduin inquire about his father’s whereabouts and it be revealed his soul was destroyed.
Why do people want Arthas to be redeemed? He made the choices that eventually made him become the Lich King. It would make zero sense with the whole “soul” thing anyways, that the narrative was building up.
Its basically on the level of asking for Kil’jaeden to be redeemed because he followed Archimonde in thinking the Legion would provide knowledge without corruption.
I don’t know if it’s entirely about him being redeemed, in fact I don’t even think he needs to be redeemed, but I think people expected that because they were tying so much lore up around Arthas and the Lich King that he was expected to make a more prominent appearance.
Ultimately I see Arthas and the Lich King as two separate people. As Arthas he was an idiot for making the choices he made, but once he picked up Frostmourne and lost his soul to it he wasn’t really in control anymore. After his defeat he was even glad that it was all over. One could reasonably assume that in a world with a simple Heaven/Hell concept he might have gone to Heaven despite what he did as the Lich King because of how he was manipulated.
This is how it feels. They just butchered so many past characters and stories in Shadowlands.
When Anduin split the sword a remnant of Arthas should have been standing there. Jaina, Uther, Thrall, Sylvanas all silent.
Then Arthas speaks directly to Sylvanas. “For some things there is no atonement. Regret for the unforgivable things done, does not change that the will to do them had to already exist within.”
Arthas then looks at Jaina and Uther As his soul slowly starts to fade into nothing. “Redemption. Forgiveness. Salvation. For what was done, there can be none of these. There is only memory left of what was. Nothing More.”
Arthas soul fades away.
Sylvanas simply looks down. Knowing that she and her soul are doomed. There is no path back for her.
Uther to Jaina. “At long last, his path has ended. Nothing of Arthas Remains. The last whisper of his soul has gone.”
Jaina “His path ended long ago. What has finally gone are the remnants that were never let to fade.”
Jaina then looks at Sylvanas “There is only one end for those whose deeds are beyond redemption and who’s soul is damaged beyond salvation.”
I liked that they brought varian back to talk anduin off the ledge… I wanted MORE of that interaction than what we got but at least they gave us that… I guess…
Arthas should have gotten more than that… and sylvanis less… or it should have been different… where she was equivilant to and not more than… arthas… just because she says she became him isnt making herself equivilant to him… she remains… but he withers… why? because she has lady parts and arthas doesnt? i wonder…
Mmmm, honestly, the lore is pretty trash at this point. Ultimately there’s lots of arguments to be made here. I believe Anduin was being controlled by domination magic, whereas Arthas wielding Frostmourne wasn’t, he was turned undead and lost his soul. And Anduin was following orders right up until the last second when a couple of spirits tell him naw dawg, don’t do it. Arthas never had anyone do that for him. You could also argue that given Anduin was fresh on domination train that he was more easily broken free, whereas Arthas was left to his own devices for many years.
This is the problem with the whole Shadowlands storyline and how they’ve retconned the crap out of everything now. Everything can change based on how the writers are feeling.
Frostmourne corrupts, it was a sword of evil that even the player couldn’t touch and had to use a few fragments in artifact because it would corrupt us. And the purge of strat was the only way to “save” them.
So everything he did before Frostmourne is because of Frostmourne? Come on.
Even with Stratholme – was it the only way to save them? All we have is Uther saying “There has to be a better way” and Arthas saying “no”. We dont know if there was an alternative – because thats how it was written to make Arthas make a dark decision to put him down a path.
Just went to Reddit and I don’t think anyone liked the cinematic. I’m ready for part 2 now when the jailer dies. And then no more cinematics until next expansion trailer
There was no way. If they had closed off the city, infected citizens who didn’t turn yet would turn elsewhere and we would have a zombie virus apocalpyse in wow. Arthas did the right thing containing the turning virus before it escaped strat. And last I checked there was no way to cure from being a mindless zombie in wow. Uther showed the “theres another way” hopeful approach. But there isn’t always such an approach. It’s born out of the desire to avoid the worst case scenario.
Yes, everything Arthas did was ultimately his choice up until he picked up Frostmourne. No one is saying otherwise, the point is he was manipulated to move towards making those decisions.
Arthas made lots of bad/dumb decisions in what he saw was for the greater good. He was justifying the means with the ends, and in that regard he was a rising anti-hero who was too stupid to actually be one so he was just turned into a pawn and then went full evil.
Funnily enough, Stratholme and the Ships are some decent examples of morally grey decisions that Blizzard wants us to see in all their character designs these days though. Was he really wrong to kill people who were fated to become undead? And while he burned his ships he blamed it on some monster mercenaries, who cares about them? They’re just dumb trolls and ogres!