And that kids is why sharding is unacceptable

11/08/2018 10:20 PMPosted by Nickamus
...

Once again, tell us all how "NONE" means "we might use it at launch".


I did, go back and read. I've already had this conversation. He said the community has a strong desire for no sharding (and some other stuff).

Where the F did he say "we promise there wont be any sharding"?

Seems to me that people dont know how to read/hear what they want to hear. Just like how people were amazed there was sharding in Legion when it was known in the pre-patch.

Just like nobody has found anything where Blizzard actually said "this tech will never be used on current content"

Just like people say Blizzard lied and didn't remove CRZ from RP. They did remove it, except current expansion content and game-driven events that cause mass convergence. This was explicitly stated to be the case when they removed CRZ from old zones.


We've already shown you where J. Allen Brack said "NONE" of the sharding will be used in classic.

You want to claim that he never said "promised" anything, since he never used the words "we promise".

Show us all where Ion said "we promise that sharding will ONLY be used in starting zones and ONLY for a brief time. We promise that sharding will NEVER be used anywhere other than starting zones or beyond the first <x amount of time>".
11/09/2018 01:55 AMPosted by Daesƻl
11/09/2018 01:36 AMPosted by Nickamus
Caramel is probably the best variety of popcorn.
Nuh-Uh. Cheese popcorn ftw!!

Man, I cant even stand the smell of cheese popcorn!
11/09/2018 02:02 AMPosted by Lhyme
11/09/2018 01:21 AMPosted by Nickamus
I had to beat you into submission how you were wrong about RP Sharding, why in the world would I take your strawman at face value?
Something's really wrong with you. I don't even know what you mean here. Are you under the impression that Blizzard does what they say they'll do? That they never waffle, change their minds or outright lie? Is this what you think?
11/09/2018 01:24 AMPosted by Nickamus
Or are you just too entitled and important to be a decent, honest person? I suppose so, with your quote omissions and your refusal to even acknowledge that you were wrong, that they aren't the liar you made them out to be by omitting information from the same quotes I gave back to you (which btw means you knew you were lying and just didn't care. Yikes. Karma is going to be awful).
No such a thing ever happened. Like I said, something is really wrong with you.

Fact: Sharding on RP servers isn't suppose to behave the same way as other realms.

Fact: Sharding on RP servers behaves the same way as other realms.

What YOU have done with this information is to claim, "I read this as sharding was intended to work, but it wasn't working properly, and such they are NOW just turning the whole thing off. Again, you leave out parts that don't fit your argument. If it was meant to be disabled, there is nothing to 'not work properly'. They would have just turned it off. Sounds to me like they had a modified version of sharding running for RP servers, but it wasn't working right so they just nuked the whole thing."

They didn't nuke the whole thing. They didn't nuke anything. Sharding is still a thing everywhere on RP realms.

https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17620612239

You trotted out this: "There are still limits, of course; we don't want playing on an RP realm to mean you can't properly experience core game content due to low FPS or heavy input lag. As such, all Legion zones (including all of the Broken Isles, the Broken Isles version of Dalaran, and soon, Argus) will still have sharding active, as they do on non-RP realms. Similarly, when the game itself points players toward a specific area of the non-Legion world (such as for a holiday event or new patch content), we may temporarily re-enable sharding in that area until things settle down." and brought up things like Brewfest being sharded. (Why would Brewfest need sharding?? WTH?) Why a realm with fewer than 1/10th the pop of Nost needs sharding anywhere is beyond me, but never mind that now.

You simply used this to excuse Blizzard's sharding RP realms anywhere and everywhere. Sharding is still behaving the same way on RP realms as it does on every other realm. Try actually READING.


No man, you are dead wrong on this. You goons keep linking me to this Moon Guard event as if it is proof that they still shard on RP servers.

SHARDING AT THE VERY THING YOU KEEP LINKING ME TO IS WHEN THEY TURNED SHARDING OFF!

That event was on 8/7/2017. Sharding on RP Realms was turned off ON 8/7/2017. Because of this event!

You clearly can't read or even put together an argument or make sense of all the information. Check the dates and realize how foolish you are.

https://blizzardwatch.com/2017/08/07/rp-tournament-event-saved-phasing-hotfixes/

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20758556541?page=9#post-165

'ermahgerd they shard everywhere, for any reason on RP servers!'. They don't. You are wrong. You just don't understand why/when they shard, even though they have told you explicitly.
Why not just make temporary startup servers that you are thrown into when you start a character, it accepts people until it hits a certain number. After you hit lvl 10 or so you migrate to your new real server of your choice and join friends.
11/09/2018 08:46 AMPosted by Oldallagala
Fine, then you spend that on one trip to Taco Bell. However it fits you
Taco bell makes me sick. Literally, I'll have to sit on the toilet and or throw up. But if you think I should go buy some...
Why is not going to a club terrible? I looked up the most expensive club in town and I could go twice a month and have enough money to tip the dancing ladies for the price of Playing Classi.c
The YMCA used to have a Chess club, but that was freeeeee.
Friends made our own Magic the Gathering club and that was freeeee.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

I did, go back and read. I've already had this conversation. He said the community has a strong desire for no sharding (and some other stuff).

Where the F did he say "we promise there wont be any sharding"?

Seems to me that people dont know how to read/hear what they want to hear. Just like how people were amazed there was sharding in Legion when it was known in the pre-patch.

Just like nobody has found anything where Blizzard actually said "this tech will never be used on current content"

Just like people say Blizzard lied and didn't remove CRZ from RP. They did remove it, except current expansion content and game-driven events that cause mass convergence. This was explicitly stated to be the case when they removed CRZ from old zones.


We've already shown you where J. Allen Brack said "NONE" of the sharding will be used in classic.

You want to claim that he never said "promised" anything, since he never used the words "we promise".

Show us all where Ion said "we promise that sharding will ONLY be used in starting zones and ONLY for a brief time. We promise that sharding will NEVER be used anywhere other than starting zones or beyond the first <x amount of time>".


"One of the tenets of Classic WoW is none of the cross-server realms and different server sharding options that we have available to us today. Thereā€™s a lot of desire on part of the community that this is something that they donā€™t want."

https://www.pcgamer.com/this-is-how-blizzard-plans-to-finally-bring-back-vanilla-wow-servers/

He never said 'we are not going to shard anywhere in Classic, ever'. All he acknowledged that its important that Classic WoW doesn't have sharding and they want to stick to that tenet as much as possible. And it won't have sharding, for any meaningful amount of time. This desire needs to be tempered against reality and providing a quality service. This is a quote taken to mean too much, from 2017.

Ion at Blizzcon:

"We understand, and I understand completely, that sharding is antithetical to the concept of a cohesive Classic community where you are completing over limited resources. That said the first few weeks when everyone is packed into Valley of Trials/Elwynn... we think we can use sharding there to in a time-limited way ... to solve launch day problems". They have clearly outlined what they are going to do. You can consider that a promise, because they told you what the plan was. If they go against that, then they broke their word.

https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/9tys7x/ion_hazzikostas_answers_about_classic_sharding/

Cross Realm Zones won't be a thing.
Sharding will be (and should be) at launch, and then turned off as they will no longer be needed.

You need to get over it, and yourself.
11/09/2018 08:23 AMPosted by Stiffhorn
11/09/2018 07:08 AMPosted by Babana
...
You kind of need these things to function in society.
WoW Not so much. Buying the max amount of time won't even save you enough to afford a Server Transfer. You'll have to find that penny yourself.
With that said, the player that was sharded didn't crash the server when joining the shard. And all they did was create a hurdle for players to overcome. Everyone is trying to get to the shard that everyone is on, what's the point in sharding.


How long did humanity survive with out utility services?
You need them if you want to live within established society.
You can live without them or use alternatives.

You're right though. Wow is a luxury entertainment item. Completely optional.
Yet $15 a month(same as 2004) is too much?
You spend that at the door getting into most good clubs on the weekend. Even more if they charge for parking and the place is bumping.
That is before you even get a drink.

Well according to blizz this will be launch and only the start zones to ease server load at launch and most likely herd some players along.
Not sure it will be like that but meh.

We still don't have all the details. We still don't even know what the load will be on launch.
Who knows sharding or not we might break the login server. Then again it might not be half as bad as is seemingly being projected.
We need to know how many servers, what types, server names, regions, timezones, where are the streamers and their herds going, is it a world wide release, are server releases being staggered at all, and we need to know for the sake of all that is good: when is the open beta.

These things can give us some valuable information to ascertain a much clearer picture of what launch day will be like.
Might not even be needed. Might be needed or no one is playing on launch day.
I know I don't want to waste a week's vacation staring at a log in screen que countdown.
Also the concerns about using for events such as AQ or city raids.
AQ I'm ok with because that is a piece of gaming history that hopefully we get a unique chance to see again.
For those who locked up and couldn't even see the event. Sharding seems like it would be ideal.
City raids and world bosses though? Let it be a lag fest. What most call lag is their cpu and gpu not being able to keep up.
Upgrade or turn your settings down.


So, now you're up to "Only starting zones at launch and the AQ event are acceptable uses of sharding"? That sure seems like more than "just starting zones at launch" to me.
11/09/2018 09:13 AMPosted by Vultus
Why not just make temporary startup servers that you are thrown into when you start a character, it accepts people until it hits a certain number. After you hit lvl 10 or so you migrate to your new real server of your choice and join friends.


So sharding
11/09/2018 09:22 AMPosted by Nickamus
...

We've already shown you where J. Allen Brack said "NONE" of the sharding will be used in classic.

You want to claim that he never said "promised" anything, since he never used the words "we promise".

Show us all where Ion said "we promise that sharding will ONLY be used in starting zones and ONLY for a brief time. We promise that sharding will NEVER be used anywhere other than starting zones or beyond the first <x amount of time>".


"One of the tenets of Classic WoW is none of the cross-server realms and different server sharding options that we have available to us today. Thereā€™s a lot of desire on part of the community that this is something that they donā€™t want."

https://www.pcgamer.com/this-is-how-blizzard-plans-to-finally-bring-back-vanilla-wow-servers/

He never said 'we are not going to shard anywhere in Classic, ever'. All he acknowledged that its important that Classic WoW doesn't have sharding. And it won't, for any meaningful amount of time. This desire needs to be tempered against reality and providing a quality service.

Cross Realm Zones won't be a thing.
Sharding will be (and should be) at launch, and then turned off as they will no longer be needed.

You need to get over it, and yourself.


Because "none of the cross-server realms and different server sharding options that we have available to us today." clearly means except in starting zones at launch.

Once again, since you want to claim that J. Allen Brack never specifically said "We promise that there will never be sharding anywhere at all in classic", show us where Ion specifically said "We promise that sharding will only be used in the starting areas and only for <x amount of time> We promise that sharding will NEVER be used anywhere other than starting zones or beyond the first <x amount of time>".

I'm betting that you cannot.

Tell us all why one statement that did not specifically include the words "We promise" is any less of a "promise" than another statement that does not include those words.

It couldn't possibly be because you WANT that second statement to be a promise because it fits your agenda and your retail, instant gratification, convenience oriented mindset, could it?
11/09/2018 09:22 AMPosted by Nickamus
...

We've already shown you where J. Allen Brack said "NONE" of the sharding will be used in classic.

You want to claim that he never said "promised" anything, since he never used the words "we promise".

Show us all where Ion said "we promise that sharding will ONLY be used in starting zones and ONLY for a brief time. We promise that sharding will NEVER be used anywhere other than starting zones or beyond the first <x amount of time>".


"One of the tenets of Classic WoW is none of the cross-server realms and different server sharding options that we have available to us today. Thereā€™s a lot of desire on part of the community that this is something that they donā€™t want."

https://www.pcgamer.com/this-is-how-blizzard-plans-to-finally-bring-back-vanilla-wow-servers/

He never said 'we are not going to shard anywhere in Classic, ever'. All he acknowledged that its important that Classic WoW doesn't have sharding. And it won't, for any meaningful amount of time. This desire needs to be tempered against reality and providing a quality service.

Cross Realm Zones won't be a thing.
Sharding will be (and should be) at launch, and then turned off as they will no longer be needed.

You need to get over it, and yourself.


According to you, Brack never even promised that CRZ's wouldn't be thing, yet you assert that they will not be. Why would CRZ's be absolutely any "less of thing" than sharding, since neither one was specifically promised not be in classic.
11/09/2018 09:35 AMPosted by Ratsmats

Because "none of the cross-server realms and different server sharding options that we have available to us today." clearly means except in starting zones at launch.

Once again, since you want to claim that J. Allen Brack never specifically said "We promise that there will never be sharding anywhere at all in classic", show us where Ion specifically said "We promise that sharding will only be used in the starting areas and only for <x amount of time> We promise that sharding will NEVER be used anywhere other than starting zones or beyond the first <x amount of time>".

I'm betting that you cannot.

Tell us all why one statement that did not specifically include the words "We promise" is any less of a "promise" than another statement that does not include those words.

It couldn't possibly be because you WANT that second statement to be a promise because it fits your agenda and your retail, instant gratification, convenience oriented mindset, could it?


Re-read what Brack said. All he said was that community didn't want it.
He acknowledged that we didn't want it. Never "And we won't put it in there".
11/09/2018 09:44 AMPosted by Brockthorn
Re-read what Brack said. All he said was that community didn't want it.
He acknowledged that we didn't want it. Never "And we won't put it in there".

Bingo!
11/09/2018 08:29 AMPosted by BlƔys
Any private server talk is a strawman and has no bearing on any Classic or Retail wow discussion. I'm sorry, that's just how it is. I'm anti-sharding, pro-vanilla, pro-vanilla AV, because of how the classes played and how the game felt.

That being said, I'm also pro-current graphics. See? People can be all over the map with their opinions.

Private servers have nothing to do with any of this. Nothing. It doesn't matter how well my friend brews beer in his basement when it comes to trying to get a major brewer to revert a recipe. And NO I don't have to be grateful that they brew anything at all, or grovel at their feet because they're reverse engineering their current beer recipe.

I also don't have to treat the guys working in the brewery with some kind of reverence. Make the beer.


Showing gratitude to another human being for the work they do, even when you trade for it at a fair price, is a trait of a good human being. Nobody asked you to grovel or be reverent. Gratitude is not some act of submission. People say 'thank you' when someone opens up the door for them, but when a multi-billion dollar corporation does something grand for a small subset of their communty, 'thank you' is somehow just too much for you? You're right, you should probably criticize the door holder because they didn't open it in the same way you would have.

'Here be Sociopaths, arrrr!'
11/09/2018 09:44 AMPosted by Brockthorn
11/09/2018 09:35 AMPosted by Ratsmats

Because "none of the cross-server realms and different server sharding options that we have available to us today." clearly means except in starting zones at launch.

Once again, since you want to claim that J. Allen Brack never specifically said "We promise that there will never be sharding anywhere at all in classic", show us where Ion specifically said "We promise that sharding will only be used in the starting areas and only for <x amount of time> We promise that sharding will NEVER be used anywhere other than starting zones or beyond the first <x amount of time>".

I'm betting that you cannot.

Tell us all why one statement that did not specifically include the words "We promise" is any less of a "promise" than another statement that does not include those words.

It couldn't possibly be because you WANT that second statement to be a promise because it fits your agenda and your retail, instant gratification, convenience oriented mindset, could it?


Re-read what Brack said. All he said was that community didn't want it.
He acknowledged that we didn't want it. Never "And we won't put it in there".


"One of the tenets of Classic WoW is none of the cross-server realms and different [server] sharding options that we have available to us today. Thereā€™s a lot of desire on part of the community that this is something that they donā€™t want."

He did acknowledge that Blizzard recognizes that the community doesn't want CRZ"s or sharding, but he did so AFTER he specifically said "NONE of the cross-server realms and different [server] sharding options that we have available to us today."

Notice he did not say "only limited use of CRZ's or sharding". He specifically said "NONE".

There is NOTHING that makes Brack's statement any less of a "promise" than Ion's statement that sharding will only be used in the starting areas and only for a brief time. Yet, those with a retail, instant gratification, convenience oriented mindset want us to believe that Ion "promised" that sharding would NEVER be used anywhere but the starting zones and would NEVER be used beyond the initial rush. Is that because admitting that Ion didn't "promise" a dang thing would not support their agenda?
...

"One of the tenets of Classic WoW is none of the cross-server realms and different server sharding options that we have available to us today. Thereā€™s a lot of desire on part of the community that this is something that they donā€™t want."

https://www.pcgamer.com/this-is-how-blizzard-plans-to-finally-bring-back-vanilla-wow-servers/

He never said 'we are not going to shard anywhere in Classic, ever'. All he acknowledged that its important that Classic WoW doesn't have sharding. And it won't, for any meaningful amount of time. This desire needs to be tempered against reality and providing a quality service.

Cross Realm Zones won't be a thing.
Sharding will be (and should be) at launch, and then turned off as they will no longer be needed.

You need to get over it, and yourself.


Because "none of the cross-server realms and different server sharding options that we have available to us today." clearly means except in starting zones at launch.

Once again, since you want to claim that J. Allen Brack never specifically said "We promise that there will never be sharding anywhere at all in classic", show us where Ion specifically said "We promise that sharding will only be used in the starting areas and only for <x amount of time> We promise that sharding will NEVER be used anywhere other than starting zones or beyond the first <x amount of time>".

I'm betting that you cannot.

Tell us all why one statement that did not specifically include the words "We promise" is any less of a "promise" than another statement that does not include those words.

It couldn't possibly be because you WANT that second statement to be a promise because it fits your agenda and your retail, instant gratification, convenience oriented mindset, could it?


I already did, but here we go again:

Ion was asked what Blizzard will do with sharding/crz for classic and was given an answer. 'sharding at launch' <- do you see CRZ in there?

Brack said in an interview that its one of the tenets of classic wow and that they know fans don't want it. We don't even know what question he was asked when he gave that response. We have no context. All you should take away from this is that they are going to make it a tenet that the game does not shard. The fact that they have to use it to get a stable launch surpasses this, because the benefit outweighs the cost.
11/09/2018 09:56 AMPosted by Ratsmats
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Re-read what Brack said. All he said was that community didn't want it.
He acknowledged that we didn't want it. Never "And we won't put it in there".


"One of the tenets of Classic WoW is none of the cross-server realms and different [server] sharding options that we have available to us today. Thereā€™s a lot of desire on part of the community that this is something that they donā€™t want."

He did acknowledge that Blizzard recognizes that the community doesn't want CRZ"s or sharding, but he did so AFTER he specifically said "NONE of the cross-server realms and different [server] sharding options that we have available to us today."

Notice he did not say "only limited use of CRZ's or sharding". He specifically said "NONE".

There is NOTHING that makes Brack's statement any less of a "promise" than Ion's statement that sharding will only be used in the starting areas and only for a brief time. Yet, those with a retail, instant gratification, convenience oriented mindset want us to believe that Ion "promised" that sharding would NEVER be used anywhere but the starting zones and would NEVER be used beyond the initial rush. Is that because admitting that Ion didn't "promise" a dang thing would not support their agenda?


do you have 'retail, instant gratification, convenience oriented mindset' saved in notepad for you to copy/paste in every reply? You are just the weirdest. If I were making a game, you are certainly not who I would tailor it to.

Seems clear to me that you are making Brack's statement into something its not to fit your 'Agenda' (so serious!).
retail, instant gratification, convenience oriented mindset. Lets pick that apart...

Retail. Do I just love selling goods to people? Is it bad because wholesale is cheaper? Can someone explain to me how playing Retail WoW makes me a sub-human? I would think spasming all over the forums spreading misinformation, throwing tantrums, and copy/pasting the same thing repeatedly would more a sub-human, make!

Instant Gratification. Yes, I want thousands of players to have a stable launch so they can enjoy Classic, which is a game that doesn't belong to me, Ratsmats, or any of the other 'Vanilla Purists' (again, so serious!). That certainly means I want to 'infect' Classic with Retail systems of loot, progression, and gameplay. I am less of a Vanilla fan because I can balance reality when considering what a 14 year old game should feel like today.

Convenience. Yes, being able to log in on launch day is such a convenience. I am certainly the one feeling entitled around here.

I suppose everyone but Ratsmats should sit back on launch day (week/month?) so that that they can enjoy their game at launch, the game they have worked so hard for, and wouldn't have without the -actual- fans who supported the game for the last 14 years instead of bailing in 2007 to go play for free.
11/09/2018 05:21 AMPosted by Fallanaa
You haven't been paying attention.

I have. Private server white knights think they're Elune's gift to Azeroth and are the only reason WoW Classic is happening. They're wrong.

You're delusional if you think a thriving pirated community that has lasted for years is not the primary reason Blizz decided remastering(note: not relaunching) Classic has a good chance to succeed and make them money.

Unfortunately they're too blinded by the modern model to realize that half the players simply will not pay to play a remastered Classic. We want an authentic one, frustration, glaring flaws and all.
<span class="truncated">...</span>
I have. Private server white knights think they're Elune's gift to Azeroth and are the only reason WoW Classic is happening. They're wrong.

You're delusional if you think a thriving pirated community that has lasted for years is not the primary reason Blizz decided remastering(note: not relaunching) Classic has a good chance to succeed and make them money.

Unfortunately they're too blinded by the modern model to realize that half the players simply will not pay to play a remastered Classic. We want an authentic one, frustration, glaring flaws and all.


Alright, but the other half will, so they still come out ahead. See, because before when you all were violating copyright law, Blizzard was making 0 dollars. Now, half of you throw a tantrum and say you are taking your neck beard and going home. The other half might be functioning humans so they play. (X/2) *15 = monthly income for Blizzard in USD, where X is the number of neck beards. Maybe it should have been N?

Then there are players like me who never went to a private server who will play Classic. See how easily that half you were talking about got replaced?
I am cautiously accepting of sharding for starter zones for awhile. I do not agree with the idea. Mainly due to the fact that I believe such changes cater to the people who would not last until ashenvale either way. I do however accept that there are server side reasons for starter zone sharding as well.

My main concern and red-line occurs the moment I or anyone else is sharded in the barrens or above. It has nothing to do with what Blizzard has or hasn't said or "promised". It is more along the lines of if they shard ashenvale how could they possibly not shard BRM PVP or other critical events to the vanilla experience. Should this occur i will return to private servers very happily; likely with a lot of others.