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Man, look at you. So ultra.
"They cant even handle Vanilla!". Okay, Mister. You must be one of the Few Good Men, eh? Jack Nicholson would be proud.
I've played since Vanilla, and theres nothing charming or fun about a !@#$ty launch that takes weeks to sort out. You literally lose nothing with sharding in the first couple of weeks, but thousands of people can enjoy a stable launch with high but manageable populations.
The horror of it all, I know.
Sounds to me like you are admitting that you can't handle a "truer to vanilla" Classic. Thank you for proving my point.
You mean the vanilla I played for three years before TBC? That I played (or tried to) on launch day? oh my god you're so right! I just cant handle it! I'm not as 1337 as you! It takes real stones to try and login all day, have repeated crashes, 3 hour line queues. That really is what Vanilla was all about, after all. Massive technical failure really was the true spirit of the game.
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1. You know you will play. Who are you kidding.
2. They aren't even talking about putting it in. They want it active for launch only so people can login. Without it, it's going to be an awful experience and take weeks for people to get in the game and out of a star zone.
How can they be talking about "have it active for launch only" if they "aren't even talking about putting it in"?
3. This video was staged, they are intentionally pulling players into one shard and posting the video to make it all look horrible. There wasnt one shard with like 200 people and one with 2. This didnt happen naturally.
I won't even begin to profess that I know how sharding works in WoW, but I DO know how "instancing", as it is called in some other games, works in those games. When the population in a given "instance" reaches a certain point, a new "instance" is generated and players entering that area are placed in that new instance by default, while players in the previously existing "instance" remain in that "instance". It is not at all uncommon to see one "instance" with a population far in excess of 100 players and less than 10 players, or even 1 player in the other "instance".
As I said, I do not know how the "sharding" process works in WoW. When a new shard is "created", are the players in the existing "shard" simply "divided" between the shards, or do the players in the existing shard remain in that shard, while players entering that area are placed in the new "shard" by default?
If players in an existing "shard" are simply divided between the shard when a new "shard" is created, then it would seem to me that it is very likely that players will see other players in the same area simply "disappear" when they are moved to the "new shard". If, on the other hand, players in an existing shard remain in that "shard" when a new "shard" is created, and players entering that area are placed in the new "shard", then it seems to me that it would be very possible to see one "shard" heavily populated and the new "shard" practically barren.
Maybe someone from Blizzard will deign to explain exactly how the "sharding" process works when new "shards" are created.
Classic will run on the same server architecture that Live runs on.
They don't need to do any extra work to make sharding work for Classic. What I meant by 'putting it in' is that they arent talking about using it in anyway outside of the initial launch, after which it goes away. I think they are also applying it only to specific zones, some of the first ones you are likely to be in early on. Not 100% on that though.
I'm not clear on the innards of sharding, would need information from Blizzard on that. That said, we are only talking about smoothing out the launch period, so any in depth conversation about it probably isnt warrantes.
The sharding is not to prevent crashes AFAIK, the sharding on launch is just to make it so noobs can tag mobs
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I'm not forgetting that. I expressly said Legion was the first time it was used in current content. That is the opposite of forgetting.
I'm acknowledging that in Legion players were told that CRZ would be used in current content. Things change. They didn't lie. That was the intent when they implemented the tech. I heartily doubt Blizzard ever said "we vow to you on this day that CRZ shall never be used in current expansion content."
I'm open to being proved wrong on that. glhf.
And yet, we're supposed to just blindly believe that, with regards to sharding in classic, things "won't change" and we won't suddenly find ourselves in a game that is sharded everywhere?
Yes. Mostly because Classic wont change that much and none of the events in Vanilla neede sharding and they went fine. You can make a very strong argument that Vanilla WoW needed something to help it launch, because the launch went terribly and took many weeks to work itself out.
11/08/2018 09:10 PMPosted by
Mini
11/08/2018 09:01 PMPosted by
Fyedora
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And what will happen when the Horde raids IF? If sharding is enabled for high population density on launch, how do we know it won't be enabled for even higher densities later during significant server-wide events?
Lol so 1000's of people in one zone is less stress on the server than a few hundred in Ironforge? Or a few hundred at AQ? Or a few hundred at DMF?
At launch players will be spread across multiple starter zones. During a server wide event they'll all be convening in one place.
Regardless of magnitude, the principle is the same: if they rationalize sharding for starter zone high populations, how do we know they won't eventually do the same for other cases of high populations? This is why we need a beta, so people can form huge WPVP brawls in STV and see if they get sharded.
I keep reading this question - "how do we know?"
You don't, you won't, and you can't.
Why? Because Classic is built on the same servers as Live, which means even if they dont turn it on for launch, they can turn it on at any point thereafter.
I guess you will all have to live in constant fear.
I mean, what do you want? A letter from God written in Metzen's blood vowing to never CRZ? It's not that serious, folks. You aren't trusting. Blizzard with your lives...
No sharding for Classic, please.
Blizzard should develop a better way to ensure a stable launch.
Classic deserves better.
11/08/2018 09:30 PMPosted by
Fyedora
11/08/2018 09:10 PMPosted by
Mini
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Lol so 1000's of people in one zone is less stress on the server than a few hundred in Ironforge? Or a few hundred at AQ? Or a few hundred at DMF?
At launch players will be spread across multiple starter zones. During a server wide event they'll all be convening in one place.
Regardless of magnitude, the principle is the same: if they rationalize sharding for starter zone high populations, how do we know they won't eventually do the same for other cases of high populations? This is why we need a beta, so people can form huge WPVP brawls in STV and see if they get sharded.
Also, on RP servers they have disabled all sharding that isnt game-driven. So a wpvp brawl would not get sharded. If they did that for RP on Live, do you really, honestly, think they wont do at least that for Classic?
You would have had to leave the realm of skepticism entered the realm of paranoia/hate to expect that from Blizzard.
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Sounds to me like you are admitting that you can't handle a "truer to vanilla" Classic. Thank you for proving my point.
You mean the vanilla I played for three years before TBC? That I played (or tried to) on launch day? oh my god you're so right! I just cant handle it! I'm not as 1337 as you! It takes real stones to try and login all day, have repeated crashes, 3 hour line queues. That really is what Vanilla was all about, after all. Massive technical failure really was the true spirit of the game.
Some of those who played vanilla have developed a retail, instant gratification, convenience oriented mindset and even though they may have played vanilla when it was current, they have become so focused on convenience and instant gratification that they can no longer handle a truer vanilla.
Others who played vanilla still appreciate it for what it was, warts and all. That is what we want back. We want the community, the competition for resources, quest objectives, mobs, etc. We don't want Classic + or vanilla lite. We don't want all the "sharding", loot trading, or other abominations contaminating and poisoning Classic.
Those with a classic mindset are not filling up the GD forums trying to change retail into "classic", so why are those with a retail, instant gratification, convenience oriented mindset so intent upon changing and bastardizing Classic to suit themselves?
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How can they be talking about "have it active for launch only" if they "aren't even talking about putting it in"?
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I won't even begin to profess that I know how sharding works in WoW, but I DO know how "instancing", as it is called in some other games, works in those games. When the population in a given "instance" reaches a certain point, a new "instance" is generated and players entering that area are placed in that new instance by default, while players in the previously existing "instance" remain in that "instance". It is not at all uncommon to see one "instance" with a population far in excess of 100 players and less than 10 players, or even 1 player in the other "instance".
As I said, I do not know how the "sharding" process works in WoW. When a new shard is "created", are the players in the existing "shard" simply "divided" between the shards, or do the players in the existing shard remain in that shard, while players entering that area are placed in the new "shard" by default?
If players in an existing "shard" are simply divided between the shard when a new "shard" is created, then it would seem to me that it is very likely that players will see other players in the same area simply "disappear" when they are moved to the "new shard". If, on the other hand, players in an existing shard remain in that "shard" when a new "shard" is created, and players entering that area are placed in the new "shard", then it seems to me that it would be very possible to see one "shard" heavily populated and the new "shard" practically barren.
Maybe someone from Blizzard will deign to explain exactly how the "sharding" process works when new "shards" are created.
Classic will run on the same server architecture that Live runs on.
They don't need to do any extra work to make sharding work for Classic. What I meant by 'putting it in' is that they arent talking about using it in anyway outside of the initial launch, after which it goes away. I think they are also applying it only to specific zones, some of the first ones you are likely to be in early on. Not 100% on that though.
I'm not clear on the innards of sharding, would need information from Blizzard on that. That said, we are only talking about smoothing out the launch period, so any in depth conversation about it probably isnt warrantes.
Once again, I will ask, why should we believe that, with regards to sharding, things "won't change" leading to us finding ourselves in a world with sharding everywhere?
If your answer is that "they told us that sharding would only be used at launch and only in the starting areas", allow me to remind you that they told us that CRZ's would only be used for past expansion content and NOT current content, yet retail has CRZ's everywhere, including current content. You have already acknowledged this fact, and your response what that "things change". If "things changed" for CRZ's in retail, why would things not "change" with sharding in classic?
<span class="truncated">...</span>
At launch players will be spread across multiple starter zones. During a server wide event they'll all be convening in one place.
Regardless of magnitude, the principle is the same: if they rationalize sharding for starter zone high populations, how do we know they won't eventually do the same for other cases of high populations? This is why we need a beta, so people can form huge WPVP brawls in STV and see if they get sharded.
Also, on RP servers they have disabled all sharding that isnt game-driven. So a wpvp brawl would not get sharded. If they did that for RP on Live, do you really, honestly, think they wont do at least that for Classic?
You would have had to leave the realm of skepticism entered the realm of paranoia/hate to expect that from Blizzard.
Except they do shard RP servers, and it makes people mad:
https://twitter.com/warcraftdevs/status/1022566187266232320?lang=en
It's not a matter of paranoia or hate, it's just recognizing a natural tendency, that once these tools are established then they tend to be preferentially used more over time. E.g., CRZ started as this little thing, but has since become ubiquitous.
I keep reading this question - "how do we know?"
You don't, you won't, and you can't.
Why? Because Classic is built on the same servers as Live, which means even if they dont turn it on for launch, they can turn it on at any point thereafter.
I guess you will all have to live in constant fear.
I mean, what do you want? A letter from God written in Metzen's blood vowing to never CRZ? It's not that serious, folks. You aren't trusting. Blizzard with your lives...
We already "got a letter" from J, Allen Brack and we can all see what that was worth.
<span class="truncated">...</span>
Also, on RP servers they have disabled all sharding that isnt game-driven. So a wpvp brawl would not get sharded. If they did that for RP on Live, do you really, honestly, think they wont do at least that for Classic?
You would have had to leave the realm of skepticism entered the realm of paranoia/hate to expect that from Blizzard.
Except they do shard RP servers, and it makes people mad:
https://twitter.com/warcraftdevs/status/1022566187266232320?lang=en
It's not a matter of paranoia or hate, it's just recognizing a natural tendency, that once these tools are established then they tend to be preferentially used more over time. E.g., CRZ started as this little thing, but has since become ubiquitous.
They shard on RP servers for very specific things which they stated very clearly. I have already discussed those cases. Please scroll back a a few pages and read the posts I have made.
That natural tendency evolved over years of Live. Classic is a step back in time. Their heads are in the right place. Watch the making classic panel and wow q&a from blizzcon.
If you don't trust them, I cant change your mind. But makes me wonder why you are supporting a company you dont trust.
Lol so 1000's of people in one zone is less stress on the server than a few hundred in Ironforge? Or a few hundred at AQ? Or a few hundred at DMF?
Opening the gates of AQ is a one time server event.
Everyone on the server will head to that zone.
Folks from retail will be creating level 1 toons and try to get ports there.
All the realms were constantly crashing back in vanilla when they got to the point of opening the gates.
I think you're going to see a lot more than "a few hundred" at that event.
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Except they do shard RP servers, and it makes people mad:
https://twitter.com/warcraftdevs/status/1022566187266232320?lang=en
It's not a matter of paranoia or hate, it's just recognizing a natural tendency, that once these tools are established then they tend to be preferentially used more over time. E.g., CRZ started as this little thing, but has since become ubiquitous.
They shared on RP servers for very specific things I have already discussed. Please scroll back a a few pages and read the posts I have made.
That natural tendency evolved over years of Live. Classic is a step back in time. Their heads are in the right place. Watch the making classic panel and wow q&a from blizzcon.
If you don't trust them, I cant change your mind. But makes me wonder why you are supporting a company you dont trust.
What we want is for them to give us a reason to trust them, to show us they are trying to be worthy of that trust.
If we can get them to honor their word and NOT include sharding at launch, there is a greater likelihood that sharding will not be added. There is no guarantee that it will never be added, of course, but it is less likely that it will be added if it is not present at launch.
IMO, the likelihood that it will be added if it is not present at launch, though, is far less than the likelihood of it being expanded to encompass the entire game is it is present, even in a "limited fashion", at launch.
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Except they do shard RP servers, and it makes people mad:
https://twitter.com/warcraftdevs/status/1022566187266232320?lang=en
It's not a matter of paranoia or hate, it's just recognizing a natural tendency, that once these tools are established then they tend to be preferentially used more over time. E.g., CRZ started as this little thing, but has since become ubiquitous.
They shared on RP servers for very specific things I have already discussed. Please scroll back a a few pages and read the posts I have made.
That natural tendency evolved over years of Live. Classic is a step back in time. Their heads are in the right place. Watch the making classic panel and wow q&a from blizzcon.
If you don't trust them, I cant change your mind. But makes me wonder why you are supporting a company you dont trust.
This is why a beta can settle everything in regards sharding.
I'm not supporting them in regards WoW; I unsubbed because they turned retail into garbage with obvious bad design decisions, and an inability to take accountability for those decisions. I'll gladly resub if they can deliver a classic as authentic as good 1.12 private servers.
Blizzard is absolutely wonderful with Overwatch, and I love how they are evolving that game.
The side of Blizzard dealing with Modern WoW is a different animal entirely, and I'm amazed that after all these years and after so many expansions with broken promises and under-delivery that people are still naive.
A. You have a limit of amount of posts at a time. B. Most of the friends I make are from running around, seeing them doing what I'm doing and grouping. Not spamming general looking for a group for every quest.
Adapt or don't play.
You don't need to . Just look at the past. Blizz has a history of saying "A" and then doing "B".
Havent seen the future,we've seen the past.
Doesn't mean that it will happen with Classic.
Stop fear mongering.
You are either new to WOW, a dev mole, or an absolute moron. Please stop with these trash posts.
Blizz has demonstrated time and again that we can't trust their claims. To the point where its probably wiser to not believe anything they say until they prove it ti be true.
We want classic. Most of us want no changes, and if that group many of us fear the slippery slope because we have seen it in action.
Now here we are discussing sharding before classic has even dropped.
Should we be discussing 'true classic' now? And hope it arrives in ten years?
Your attitude is one that would direct us to a retailesque classic. We are very sure we don't want quality of life changes... . This sharding issue is like a bomb going off. Blizz, almost impossibly, still doesn't get it.
Lol so 1000's of people in one zone is less stress on the server than a few hundred in Ironforge? Or a few hundred at AQ? Or a few hundred at DMF?
Opening the gates of AQ is a one time server event.
Everyone on the server will head to that zone.
Folks from retail will be creating level 1 toons and try to get ports there.
All the realms were constantly crashing back in vanilla when they got to the point of opening the gates.
I think you're going to see a lot more than "a few hundred" at that event.
But, aren't the advocates for sharding claiming that the servers handled the AQ event just fine? Surely they wouldn't deliberately distort the truth to try to pull the wool over the eyes of those opposed to sharding, would they?
If you don't trust them, I cant change your mind. But makes me wonder why you are supporting a company you dont trust.
You're a joke. People don't trust blizzard because they've done everything in their power to change the game from what it was to what it is. People are playing on buggy private servers because it is a better experience than what blizzard offers. Retail has been dwindling - that is a fact- take a look at the ATVI stock price right now and note what happened due to the Q3 earnings report. We had thought blizzard decided to offer classic in order to recapture the people who once played the game, not out of the goodness of their heart but out of the desire to make a profit. Community was the heart of WoW, and sharding destroys it. Let me fill you in on what happens if blizzard drops the ball on this: people aren't going to put up with it. There are other alternatives, we're not all as slavish as you are to a multinational private corporation that seems to be leaving its former player base behind and focusing on mobile.