And that kids is why sharding is unacceptable

11/08/2018 08:31 PMPosted by Summerayné
11/08/2018 08:22 PMPosted by Ratsmats
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I guess you are conveniently "forgetting" that when CRZ's were first introduced, long before legion, that we were told CRZ's would only be used in past expansion content and NOT in current content.


Exactly.

I thought I made that simple to read with the bold, italicized and underlined part stating exactly that. Guess not.

But just in case that part was missed and hard to comprehend and read for some, here's that tiny tidbit again:

Even Stormwind, Orgrimmar and new expansion content were recently included; areas that historically have not allowed CRZ.

And this very important part again: new expansion content were recently included; areas that historically have not allowed


You must have missed it when I said this:

I'm not sure what the significance of this is. We had already established that Legion was the first expansion to use CRZ for current content. You linked these 7.0.3 notes like they are some sort of nail in the coffin about people being hoodwinked by CRZ after Legion launch. 7.0.3 is the Legion pre-patch, man. It was clear before Legion that expansion content was going to be sharded. You just, once again, proved my point.
11/07/2018 08:58 PMPosted by Mtzjktjtj
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx9cSwgsbKQ&feature=youtu.be


And this is why i STOPPED playing retail. What a damn mess when combined with CRZ, retail is so !@#$ with this crap in it, it's why i will not play classic if blizz will put this crappy sharding in.
11/08/2018 08:16 PMPosted by Ratsmats
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You know where the irony is in this statement? Most the people advocating for LIMITED sharding are exactly these people. And we see the necessity in this necessary evil for a limited time because we want the healthiest vanilla servers for as long as possible. And this accomplishes just that.

And you guys ranting about are actually the ones seeking instant gratification with no foresight in what these servers will look like without it. “Just merge severs!” “Just lower the pop cap!”. Do these things and your servers die in a year because you needed your instant gratification instead of suffering for 2 weeks.


Which of us is advocating the convenience of having a shorter wait for quest objectives, mobs, etc. likely driven by a retail, instant gratification, convenience oriented mindset?

Which of us is displaying a more vanilla mindset by being willing to wait in log in queues, compete for resources, quest objectives, mobs, etc.?


Put your money where your mouth is. Pay for the extra servers required. Then it's all good.
11/08/2018 08:37 PMPosted by Älistar
11/07/2018 08:58 PMPosted by Mtzjktjtj
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx9cSwgsbKQ&feature=youtu.be


And this is why i STOPPED playing retail. What a damn mess when combined with CRZ, retail is so !@#$ with this crap in it, it's why i will not play classic if blizz will put this crappy sharding in.


1. You know you will play. Who are you kidding.
2. They aren't even talking about putting it in. They want it active for launch only so people can login. Without it, it's going to be an awful experience and take weeks for people to get in the game and out of a star zone.
3. This video was staged, they are intentionally pulling players into one shard and posting the video to make it all look horrible. There wasnt one shard with like 200 people and one with 2. This didnt happen naturally.
11/08/2018 08:31 PMPosted by Nickamus
11/08/2018 08:22 PMPosted by Ratsmats
...

I guess you are conveniently "forgetting" that when CRZ's were first introduced, long before legion, that we were told CRZ's would only be used in past expansion content and NOT in current content.


I'm not forgetting that. I expressly said Legion was the first time it was used in current content. That is the opposite of forgetting.

I'm acknowledging that in Legion players were told that CRZ would be used in current content. Things change. They didn't lie. That was the intent when they implemented the tech. I heartily doubt Blizzard ever said "we vow to you on this day that CRZ shall never be used in current expansion content."

I'm open to being proved wrong on that. glhf.


And yet, we're supposed to just blindly believe that, with regards to sharding in classic, things "won't change" and we won't suddenly find ourselves in a game that is sharded everywhere?
shadring Is and ever will be a horrible Feature... Bizzard please do not ruin classic :..(
it was clear before Legion that expansion content was going to be sharded.


Blizzard was asked a lot about CRZ in WoD and that would it be in for Legion, and Blizzard remained silent.

Blizzard needs to re-look at what they have done to their game over the years, CRZ and sharding have done more damage then good and will all ways remain a system that these monkeys can never get right, no matter how much they try. These kind of forced systems do not belong in a MMORPG environment as it kills immersion along with a long list of other issues.
11/08/2018 08:48 PMPosted by Nickamus
This didnt happen naturally.


You really think so? I know it happened to me a lot of times during the first 2 months when i was playing BfA....no sharding thanks.
11/08/2018 07:56 PMPosted by Ratsmats


Those who are advocating sharding are more than likely not the same people who have been requesting, for over a decade, that Blizzard provide Classic servers.

IMO, the vast majority of those who are advocating sharding have a retail, instant gratification, convenience oriented mindset. They do not want Classic. They could not handle Classic. They want Classic +, vanilla lite, EZ mode vanilla or a level 60 capped retail in a vanilla setting.


Man, look at you. So ultra.

"They cant even handle Vanilla!". Okay, Mister. You must be one of the Few Good Men, eh? Jack Nicholson would be proud.

I've played since Vanilla, and theres nothing charming or fun about a !@#$ty launch that takes weeks to sort out. You literally lose nothing with sharding in the first couple of weeks, but thousands of people can enjoy a stable launch with high but manageable populations.

The horror of it all, I know.
11/07/2018 11:25 PMPosted by Brockthorn
11/07/2018 11:21 PMPosted by Espur
For launch day it might be acceptable, or for a bit, but I feel like dynamic spawns would be a better approach. Everyone being in the same instance but being able to get their spawns.

I'm personally fine with everything taking ages to get credit, but I worry that most won't be and Classic will take a severe hit.


Folks from retail might complain but anyone who has played on a pserver is totally used to it and knows how to adjust and that the herd will thin out by level 35 or so.


Exactly. The people who care about Classic will be the ones who don't want or need sharding. The ones who need sharding for QoL improvements are going to be the ones who don't stick around for Classic.

It's really that simple.
1 Like
11/08/2018 08:55 PMPosted by Älistar
11/08/2018 08:48 PMPosted by Nickamus
This didnt happen naturally.


You really think so? I know it happened to me a lot of times during the first 2 months when i was playing BfA....no sharding thanks.


In the first few weeks of BFA you converged on a spot in one zone and then all joined a raid group to put it on youtube to fuel anti-sharding ignorance? Multiple times? Weird.

Or do you mean you saw evidence of sharding technology and just cant sleep since?
11/08/2018 08:48 PMPosted by Nickamus
11/08/2018 08:37 PMPosted by Älistar
...

And this is why i STOPPED playing retail. What a damn mess when combined with CRZ, retail is so !@#$ with this crap in it, it's why i will not play classic if blizz will put this crappy sharding in.


1. You know you will play. Who are you kidding.
2. They aren't even talking about putting it in. They want it active for launch only so people can login. Without it, it's going to be an awful experience and take weeks for people to get in the game and out of a star zone.
3. This video was staged, they are intentionally pulling players into one shard and posting the video to make it all look horrible. There wasnt one shard with like 200 people and one with 2. This didnt happen naturally.


And what will happen when the Horde raids IF? If sharding is enabled for high population density on launch, how do we know it won't be enabled for even higher densities later during significant server-wide events?
11/08/2018 08:53 PMPosted by Älistar
it was clear before Legion that expansion content was going to be sharded.


Blizzard was asked a lot about CRZ in WoD and that would it be in for Legion, and Blizzard remained silent.

Blizzard needs to re-look at what they have done to their game over the years, CRZ and sharding have done more damage then good and will all ways remain a system that these monkeys can never get right, no matter how much they try. These kind of forced systems do not belong in a MMORPG environment as it kills immersion along with a long list of other issues.


Perhaps they shouldn't have remained silent, but that's not the same as lying. Maybe they hadn't decided yet. Who is to say. Its speculation. What I do know is that, as of the 7.0.3 Legion prepatch it was common knowledge that CRZ was Legion-wide. If someone didn't know that, it's because they didnt care to. Those same people are here now saying Blizzard lies about it and misinterpreting what was said - because they are too lazy to try to understand.

I'm not advocating CRZ as a staple to be used throughout WoW or classic. I'm saying it makes sense for the first week or two of Classic, so people can login in and spread out into the other zones.
11/08/2018 08:57 PMPosted by Nickamus
11/08/2018 07:56 PMPosted by Ratsmats


Those who are advocating sharding are more than likely not the same people who have been requesting, for over a decade, that Blizzard provide Classic servers.

IMO, the vast majority of those who are advocating sharding have a retail, instant gratification, convenience oriented mindset. They do not want Classic. They could not handle Classic. They want Classic +, vanilla lite, EZ mode vanilla or a level 60 capped retail in a vanilla setting.


Man, look at you. So ultra.

"They cant even handle Vanilla!". Okay, Mister. You must be one of the Few Good Men, eh? Jack Nicholson would be proud.

I've played since Vanilla, and theres nothing charming or fun about a !@#$ty launch that takes weeks to sort out. You literally lose nothing with sharding in the first couple of weeks, but thousands of people can enjoy a stable launch with high but manageable populations.

The horror of it all, I know.


It truly amazes me people are fighting for server instability rather than a smooth launch.

The ones who don't understand how they had a smooth launch on PServers and why Blizzard can't do that and neglect the fact they are are going to run differently while also neglecting to mention how that server/s had dynamic respawns.

The ones who demand server crashes because thats the "authentic" vanilla experience and fail to realize that millions of more peoples' "authentic" first day log in was well after launch and logged in without thousands of players around and weren't subsequently kicked off the server and finding themselves unable to log in for hours at a time.
11/08/2018 09:01 PMPosted by Fyedora
11/08/2018 08:48 PMPosted by Nickamus
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1. You know you will play. Who are you kidding.
2. They aren't even talking about putting it in. They want it active for launch only so people can login. Without it, it's going to be an awful experience and take weeks for people to get in the game and out of a star zone.
3. This video was staged, they are intentionally pulling players into one shard and posting the video to make it all look horrible. There wasnt one shard with like 200 people and one with 2. This didnt happen naturally.


And what will happen when the Horde raids IF? If sharding is enabled for high population density on launch, how do we know it won't be enabled for even higher densities later during significant server-wide events?


Again... sharding wont be enabled for high populations. It will be enabled for launch and wont effect a high level raid of IF. The launching of the game is the biggest event there will be. Vanilla crashed and burned at launch. It didnt crash and burn during AQ or Scourge Invasion.

If vanilla can handle those events on 2005 tech, 2018 tech will do just fine.
11/08/2018 08:53 PMPosted by Aíra
shadring Is and ever will be a horrible Feature... Bizzard please do not ruin classic :..(


All #nosharding Classic players should tell Blizzard that they are willing to pay an extra monthly subscription for the additional servers that will be required if sharding isn't implemented.

I'm sure that Blizzard would do it!

Also, don't expect live WoW players to pay for the servers, okay? lol
11/08/2018 08:48 PMPosted by Nickamus
11/08/2018 08:37 PMPosted by Älistar
...

And this is why i STOPPED playing retail. What a damn mess when combined with CRZ, retail is so !@#$ with this crap in it, it's why i will not play classic if blizz will put this crappy sharding in.


1. You know you will play. Who are you kidding.
2. They aren't even talking about putting it in. They want it active for launch only so people can login. Without it, it's going to be an awful experience and take weeks for people to get in the game and out of a star zone.


How can they be talking about "have it active for launch only" if they "aren't even talking about putting it in"?

11/08/2018 08:48 PMPosted by Nickamus
3. This video was staged, they are intentionally pulling players into one shard and posting the video to make it all look horrible. There wasnt one shard with like 200 people and one with 2. This didnt happen naturally.


I won't even begin to profess that I know how sharding works in WoW, but I DO know how "instancing", as it is called in some other games, works in those games. When the population in a given "instance" reaches a certain point, a new "instance" is generated and players entering that area are placed in that new instance by default, while players in the previously existing "instance" remain in that "instance". It is not at all uncommon to see one "instance" with a population far in excess of 100 players and less than 10 players, or even 1 player in the other "instance".

As I said, I do not know how the "sharding" process works in WoW. When a new shard is "created", are the players in the existing "shard" simply "divided" between the shards, or do the players in the existing shard remain in that shard, while players entering that area are placed in the new "shard" by default?

If players in an existing "shard" are simply divided between the shard when a new "shard" is created, then it would seem to me that it is very likely that players will see other players in the same area simply "disappear" when they are moved to the "new shard". If, on the other hand, players in an existing shard remain in that "shard" when a new "shard" is created, and players entering that area are placed in the new "shard", then it seems to me that it would be very possible to see one "shard" heavily populated and the new "shard" practically barren.

Maybe someone from Blizzard will deign to explain exactly how the "sharding" process works when new "shards" are created.
11/08/2018 09:01 PMPosted by Fyedora
11/08/2018 08:48 PMPosted by Nickamus
...

1. You know you will play. Who are you kidding.
2. They aren't even talking about putting it in. They want it active for launch only so people can login. Without it, it's going to be an awful experience and take weeks for people to get in the game and out of a star zone.
3. This video was staged, they are intentionally pulling players into one shard and posting the video to make it all look horrible. There wasnt one shard with like 200 people and one with 2. This didnt happen naturally.


And what will happen when the Horde raids IF? If sharding is enabled for high population density on launch, how do we know it won't be enabled for even higher densities later during significant server-wide events?


Lol so 1000's of people in one zone is less stress on the server than a few hundred in Ironforge? Or a few hundred at AQ? Or a few hundred at DMF?
11/08/2018 08:57 PMPosted by Nickamus
11/08/2018 07:56 PMPosted by Ratsmats


Those who are advocating sharding are more than likely not the same people who have been requesting, for over a decade, that Blizzard provide Classic servers.

IMO, the vast majority of those who are advocating sharding have a retail, instant gratification, convenience oriented mindset. They do not want Classic. They could not handle Classic. They want Classic +, vanilla lite, EZ mode vanilla or a level 60 capped retail in a vanilla setting.


Man, look at you. So ultra.

"They cant even handle Vanilla!". Okay, Mister. You must be one of the Few Good Men, eh? Jack Nicholson would be proud.

I've played since Vanilla, and theres nothing charming or fun about a !@#$ty launch that takes weeks to sort out. You literally lose nothing with sharding in the first couple of weeks, but thousands of people can enjoy a stable launch with high but manageable populations.

The horror of it all, I know.


Sounds to me like you are admitting that you can't handle a "truer to vanilla" Classic. Thank you for proving my point.
11/08/2018 09:07 PMPosted by Mini
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Man, look at you. So ultra.

"They cant even handle Vanilla!". Okay, Mister. You must be one of the Few Good Men, eh? Jack Nicholson would be proud.

I've played since Vanilla, and theres nothing charming or fun about a !@#$ty launch that takes weeks to sort out. You literally lose nothing with sharding in the first couple of weeks, but thousands of people can enjoy a stable launch with high but manageable populations.

The horror of it all, I know.


It truly amazes me people are fighting for server instability rather than a smooth launch.

The ones who don't understand how they had a smooth launch on PServers and why Blizzard can't do that and neglect the fact they are are going to run differently while also neglecting to mention how that server/s had dynamic respawns.

The ones who demand server crashes because thats the "authentic" vanilla experience and fail to realize that millions of more peoples' "authentic" first day log in was well after launch and logged in without thousands of players around and weren't subsequently kicked off the server and finding themselves unable to log in for hours at a time.


Its baffling to see, really. Literally saying they want a launch that fails and takes weeks to sort out like Vanilla did back in the day. Its insanity.

"Well then I know how popular the launch was!"

The zones will still be crowded, you will run into a lot of people. I know because I played the demo and I run into people every time I turn around.