And that kids is why sharding is unacceptable

11/08/2018 09:30 PMPosted by Fyedora
11/08/2018 09:10 PMPosted by Mini
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Lol so 1000's of people in one zone is less stress on the server than a few hundred in Ironforge? Or a few hundred at AQ? Or a few hundred at DMF?


At launch players will be spread across multiple starter zones. During a server wide event they'll all be convening in one place.

Regardless of magnitude, the principle is the same: if they rationalize sharding for starter zone high populations, how do we know they won't eventually do the same for other cases of high populations? This is why we need a beta, so people can form huge WPVP brawls in STV and see if they get sharded.


We are essentially the blind leading the blind, regardless of what blizz has said/done in the past, when it comes to how they will handle sharding after the starting zones.

And even though I am choosing to believe them and am ok with sharding at that start, I 100% wholeheartedly agree with you on hoping we get a beta to test it out ASAP because even though I have faith it will be nice to know for a 100% fact how they plan to handle high traffic areas after launch since sharding should be completely off the table at that point.

I've played from 05 up until a few months after WotLK with no lapse in sub and like I said am fine with sharding in the starting zones but if im in Hillsbrad on Classic and keep running up to herbs that show up on mini-map but aren't actually there when I get up to them like had happened when I decided to try out leveling in Legion and had no idea wtf was going on or having other players I'm running up to to help because they're about to die and they disappear right in front of my eyes you can kiss my $15 goodbye.
11/08/2018 09:43 PMPosted by Ratsmats
11/08/2018 09:15 PMPosted by Nickamus
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You mean the vanilla I played for three years before TBC? That I played (or tried to) on launch day? oh my god you're so right! I just cant handle it! I'm not as 1337 as you! It takes real stones to try and login all day, have repeated crashes, 3 hour line queues. That really is what Vanilla was all about, after all. Massive technical failure really was the true spirit of the game.


Some of those who played vanilla have developed a retail, instant gratification, convenience oriented mindset and even though they may have played vanilla when it was current, they have become so focused on convenience and instant gratification that they can no longer handle a truer vanilla.

Others who played vanilla still appreciate it for what it was, warts and all. That is what we want back. We want the community, the competition for resources, quest objectives, mobs, etc. We don't want Classic + or vanilla lite. We don't want all the "sharding", loot trading, or other abominations contaminating and poisoning Classic.

Those with a classic mindset are not filling up the GD forums trying to change retail into "classic", so why are those with a retail, instant gratification, convenience oriented mindset so intent upon changing and bastardizing Classic to suit themselves?


Why are you such an elitist nutcase? You have posted the same paragraphs in almost all of your replies. You dont own Classic, mate. Your opinion is not more valid than someone else's. What you think Classic should be is not what it should be. Vanilla != Classic. Theres no reason it should have a crap launch like Vanilla did.

The live forums are always full of people saying 'back in my day'.

Being able to login on launch day is not a convenience. It's a right people pay money for. It's not instant gratification. It's not a 'mindset'.

It's not the filthy casuals you despise in the GD forums that came up with launch day sharding or loot sharing.

I'm advocating for a smooth launch, and you won't stop carrying on with your 'retail, instant gratification, convenience mindset' BS. Your disdain for everyone who isnt a neckbeard who quit in 2007 is clear. You arent the final say in Classic.

I already answered your question about why they wont need sharding post launch. So did Blizzard. Go find it if you want... or spend 15 seconds thinking about it.
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They shared on RP servers for very specific things I have already discussed. Please scroll back a a few pages and read the posts I have made.

That natural tendency evolved over years of Live. Classic is a step back in time. Their heads are in the right place. Watch the making classic panel and wow q&a from blizzcon.

If you don't trust them, I cant change your mind. But makes me wonder why you are supporting a company you dont trust.


What we want is for them to give us a reason to trust them, to show us they are trying to be worthy of that trust.

If we can get them to honor their word and NOT include sharding at launch, there is a greater likelihood that sharding will not be added. There is no guarantee that it will never be added, of course, but it is less likely that it will be added if it is not present at launch.

IMO, the likelihood that it will be added if it is not present at launch, though, is far less than the likelihood of it being expanded to encompass the entire game is it is present, even in a "limited fashion", at launch.


BINGO. Also, can we not appreciate how alarming it is that they weren't upfront before-hand about using sharding in the demo, and that it had to be discovered by players? I'm still astounded that someone who is supposed to care so much about authentic classic would serve up the demo in that manner without better communication about what to expect.
11/08/2018 10:05 PMPosted by Vandal
11/08/2018 09:53 PMPosted by Nickamus
If you don't trust them, I cant change your mind. But makes me wonder why you are supporting a company you dont trust.
You're a joke. People don't trust blizzard because they've done everything in their power to change the game from what it was to what it is. People are playing on buggy private servers because it is a better experience than what blizzard offers. Retail has been dwindling - that is a fact- take a look at the ATVI stock price right now and note what happened due to the Q3 earnings report. We had thought blizzard decided to offer classic in order to recapture the people who once played the game, not out of the goodness of their heart but out of the desire to make a profit. Community was the heart of WoW, and sharding destroys it. Let me fill you in on what happens if blizzard drops the ball on this: people aren't going to put up with it. There are other alternatives, we're not all as slavish as you are to a multinational private corporation that seems to be leaving its former player base behind and focusing on mobile.


Really? Not as slavish? Look st you all getting all worked up about sharding like your life depended on it. Look at you crawl to private servers just for a taste. Tell me again who the joke is. Forum troll stuck in 2004.

MMO's in general have had dwindling subscribers. Every game has its day, and its not really surprising that a 14 year old game has fewer players then in its first few. That's pretty normal.

They arent leaving Diablo fans behind - they just didnt announce all their Diablo projects. Inside sources confirmed Diabko 4 has been under dev for four years.

Sharding for two weeks at launch to get people out into the broader game will not destroy the Classic community. Grow up. You're a child throwing a tantrum.
11/08/2018 10:06 PMPosted by Nickamus
11/08/2018 09:43 PMPosted by Ratsmats
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Some of those who played vanilla have developed a retail, instant gratification, convenience oriented mindset and even though they may have played vanilla when it was current, they have become so focused on convenience and instant gratification that they can no longer handle a truer vanilla.

Others who played vanilla still appreciate it for what it was, warts and all. That is what we want back. We want the community, the competition for resources, quest objectives, mobs, etc. We don't want Classic + or vanilla lite. We don't want all the "sharding", loot trading, or other abominations contaminating and poisoning Classic.

Those with a classic mindset are not filling up the GD forums trying to change retail into "classic", so why are those with a retail, instant gratification, convenience oriented mindset so intent upon changing and bastardizing Classic to suit themselves?


Why are you such an elitist nutcase? You have posted the same paragraphs in almost all of your replies. You dont own Classic, mate. Your opinion is not more valid than someone else's. What you think Classic should be is not what it should be. Vanilla != Classic. Theres no reason it should have a crap launch like Vanilla did.

The live forums are always full of people saying 'back in my day'.

Being able to login on launch day is not a convenience. It's a right people pay money for. It's not instant gratification. It's not a 'mindset'.

It's not the filthy casuals you despise in the GD forums that came up with launch day sharding or loot sharing.

I'm advocating for a smooth launch, and you won't stop carrying on with your 'retail, instant gratification, convenience mindset' BS. Your disdain for everyone who isnt a neckbeard who quit in 2007 is clear. You arent the final say in Classic.

I already answered your question about why they wont need sharding post launch. So did Blizzard. Go find it if you want... or spend 15 seconds thinking about it.


Blizzard also told us they wouldn't need CRZ's in current content. Look what happened there.

Oh, that's right. Things "changed". We're supposed to blindly believe that things 'won't change" with sharding, though. Yeah, right.

I sincerely hope that IF sharding is present at launch and "things change" and we find ourselves in a world full of sharding that you come back here to the forums and admit that you were wrong and we were right. I highly doubt that you will have the stones to do so, though.
11/08/2018 10:08 PMPosted by Fyedora
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What we want is for them to give us a reason to trust them, to show us they are trying to be worthy of that trust.

If we can get them to honor their word and NOT include sharding at launch, there is a greater likelihood that sharding will not be added. There is no guarantee that it will never be added, of course, but it is less likely that it will be added if it is not present at launch.

IMO, the likelihood that it will be added if it is not present at launch, though, is far less than the likelihood of it being expanded to encompass the entire game is it is present, even in a "limited fashion", at launch.


BINGO. Also, can we not appreciate how alarming it is that they weren't upfront before-hand about using sharding in the demo, and that it had to be discovered by players? I'm still astounded that someone who is supposed to care so much about authentic classic would serve up the demo in that manner without better communication about what to expect.


They never gave their word that there wouldn't be sharding at launch, so they cant really honor it...

I have tried to find a point in time where Blizzard didnt keep their word about sharding and I haven't found one. The best anyone can do is 'well it used to be old content only'. K, but they didnt say that would always be the case.
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BINGO. Also, can we not appreciate how alarming it is that they weren't upfront before-hand about using sharding in the demo, and that it had to be discovered by players? I'm still astounded that someone who is supposed to care so much about authentic classic would serve up the demo in that manner without better communication about what to expect.


They never gave their word that there wouldn't be sharding at launch, so they cant really honor it...

I have tried to find a point in time where Blizzard didnt keep their word about sharding and I haven't found one. The best anyone can do is 'well it used to be old content only'. K, but they didnt say that would always be the case.


Once again, tell us all how "NONE" means "we might use it at launch".
11/08/2018 10:06 PMPosted by Mini

I've played from 05 up until a few months after WotLK with no lapse in sub and like I said am fine with sharding in the starting zones but if im in Hillsbrad on Classic and keep running up to herbs that show up on mini-map but aren't actually there when I get up to them like had happened when I decided to try out leveling in Legion and had no idea wtf was going on or having other players I'm running up to to help because they're about to die and they disappear right in front of my eyes you can kiss my $15 goodbye.


The big debate here is reactive vs proactive.
-Take a wait and see and if it's beyond starting zones then just leave.
-Don't enable it to begin with and never enable.

In the end we're all on the same side..we don't like sharding and we don't want sharding.
11/08/2018 10:05 PMPosted by Vandal
11/08/2018 09:53 PMPosted by Nickamus
If you don't trust them, I cant change your mind. But makes me wonder why you are supporting a company you dont trust.
You're a joke. People don't trust blizzard because they've done everything in their power to change the game from what it was to what it is. People are playing on buggy private servers because it is a better experience than what blizzard offers. Retail has been dwindling - that is a fact- take a look at the ATVI stock price right now and note what happened due to the Q3 earnings report. We had thought blizzard decided to offer classic in order to recapture the people who once played the game, not out of the goodness of their heart but out of the desire to make a profit. Community was the heart of WoW, and sharding destroys it. Let me fill you in on what happens if blizzard drops the ball on this: people aren't going to put up with it. There are other alternatives, we're not all as slavish as you are to a multinational private corporation that seems to be leaving its former player base behind and focusing on mobile.


Also yes of course Blizzard did do everything in their power to make the game what it is today. Because they like... make the game, ya know?
11/08/2018 10:06 PMPosted by Mini
11/08/2018 09:30 PMPosted by Fyedora
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At launch players will be spread across multiple starter zones. During a server wide event they'll all be convening in one place.

Regardless of magnitude, the principle is the same: if they rationalize sharding for starter zone high populations, how do we know they won't eventually do the same for other cases of high populations? This is why we need a beta, so people can form huge WPVP brawls in STV and see if they get sharded.


We are essentially the blind leading the blind, regardless of what blizz has said/done in the past, when it comes to how they will handle sharding after the starting zones.

And even though I am choosing to believe them and am ok with sharding at that start, I 100% wholeheartedly agree with you on hoping we get a beta to test it out ASAP because even though I have faith it will be nice to know for a 100% fact how they plan to handle high traffic areas after launch since sharding should be completely off the table at that point.

I've played from 05 up until a few months after WotLK with no lapse in sub and like I said am fine with sharding in the starting zones but if im in Hillsbrad on Classic and keep running up to herbs that show up on mini-map but aren't actually there when I get up to them like had happened when I decided to try out leveling in Legion and had no idea wtf was going on or having other players I'm running up to to help because they're about to die and they disappear right in front of my eyes you can kiss my $15 goodbye.


This is pretty much how I feel. If we knew sharding would only be in the first starter zone for the respective races, I could get over it. I want to trust them, I want to think they are genuine this time about delivering a quality WoW experience. But they have burned us in the past, and things like sharding tend to be a one-way ratchet. They could avoid all of this by using dynamic respawns, server queues, higher population caps, etc.
11/08/2018 10:08 PMPosted by Fyedora
BINGO. Also, can we not appreciate how alarming it is that they weren't upfront before-hand about using sharding in the demo, and that it had to be discovered by players? I'm still astounded that someone who is supposed to care so much about authentic classic would serve up the demo in that manner without better communication about what to expect.
I think it goes to show how out of touch they are with the playerbase that they honestly didn't think sharding was a big deal.
11/08/2018 09:00 PMPosted by Nickamus
11/08/2018 08:55 PMPosted by Älistar
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You really think so? I know it happened to me a lot of times during the first 2 months when i was playing BfA....no sharding thanks.


In the first few weeks of BFA you converged on a spot in one zone and then all joined a raid group to put it on youtube to fuel anti-sharding ignorance? Multiple times? Weird.

Or do you mean you saw evidence of sharding technology and just cant sleep since?


Anti-sharding ignorance? What is that?

You sound like a guy who said the pro-classic crowd doesn't really know what they want.

'I think sharding is fine. Therefore everyone against it is ignorant.'
<span class="truncated">...</span>

They never gave their word that there wouldn't be sharding at launch, so they cant really honor it...

I have tried to find a point in time where Blizzard didnt keep their word about sharding and I haven't found one. The best anyone can do is 'well it used to be old content only'. K, but they didnt say that would always be the case.


Once again, tell us all how "NONE" means "we might use it at launch".


I did, go back and read. I've already had this conversation. He said the community has a strong desire for no sharding (and some other stuff).

Where the F did he say "we promise there wont be any sharding"?

Seems to me that people dont know how to read/hear what they want to hear. Just like how people were amazed there was sharding in Legion when it was known in the pre-patch.

Just like nobody has found anything where Blizzard actually said "this tech will never be used on current content"

Just like people say Blizzard lied and didn't remove CRZ from RP. They did remove it, except current expansion content and game-driven events that cause mass convergence. This was explicitly stated to be the case when they removed CRZ from old zones.
11/08/2018 10:19 PMPosted by Bloodscent
11/08/2018 09:00 PMPosted by Nickamus
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In the first few weeks of BFA you converged on a spot in one zone and then all joined a raid group to put it on youtube to fuel anti-sharding ignorance? Multiple times? Weird.

Or do you mean you saw evidence of sharding technology and just cant sleep since?


Anti-sharding ignorance? What is that?

You sound like a guy who said the pro-classic crowd doesn't really know what they want.

'I think sharding is fine. Therefore everyone against it is ignorant.'


It means some people are anti-sharding but dont know what it is or what Blizzard has said about it. See the majority of the replies in this thread for examples.
I'm sure as many others said, sharding destroys the social aspect of this game and NEEDS to be removed...

I know a lot of people don't like Asmongold but he was hosting a massive raid against a bunch of elite NPCs a few days ago but a lot of people couldn't join the fun because of this stupid system in the game. It's very frustrating.
11/08/2018 10:16 PMPosted by Nickamus
Also yes of course Bkizzard did do everything in their power to make the game what it is today. Because they like... make the game, ya know?
The people that made the game are long, long gone, but you're still pathetic enough to lap up whatever slop the B team has been serving up. How's it taste?
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BINGO. Also, can we not appreciate how alarming it is that they weren't upfront before-hand about using sharding in the demo, and that it had to be discovered by players? I'm still astounded that someone who is supposed to care so much about authentic classic would serve up the demo in that manner without better communication about what to expect.


They never gave their word that there wouldn't be sharding at launch, so they cant really honor it...

I have tried to find a point in time where Blizzard didnt keep their word about sharding and I haven't found one. The best anyone can do is 'well it used to be old content only'. K, but they didnt say that would always be the case.


I'm sure there are lots of little things they never specifically promised. But the point is the vanilla WoW community has a clear idea of what vanilla is, and that sharding is antithetical to it.
You know I was kinda on the fence about "sharding" cause I know the positive points of it very well. But this video firmly put me in the correct camp of "no sharding"

I forgot after the years of having sharding I forgot what it was before sharding and honestly Its important for people to see this video to remember why sharding is bad and why we do not need it in classic.

Classic does not have bells and whistles to give players things to do. Classic has players. and Players need to see other players to create content together!

Sharding will kill classic hands down.
Reason to have sharding:
Blizzard have stated that they do not want to maintain a separate game
with sharding, loot trading, etc, it will make it so they only have to maintain one game system.
Classic will not be vanilla by any stretch of the imagination.

No, I do not have a phone.
11/08/2018 10:22 PMPosted by Fyedora
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They never gave their word that there wouldn't be sharding at launch, so they cant really honor it...

I have tried to find a point in time where Blizzard didnt keep their word about sharding and I haven't found one. The best anyone can do is 'well it used to be old content only'. K, but they didnt say that would always be the case.


I'm sure there are lots of little things they never specifically promised. But the point is the vanilla WoW community has a clear idea of what vanilla is, and that sharding is antithetical to it.


Yeah, sharding is not good for the game in anything longer than a few weeks to get over the launch hump.

Still haven't done anything to convince me that it is the best way to launch. Nobody has offered an alternative other than 'well, just let the servers crash or make people wait weeks to actually play it'. Those aren't solutions.